Who was the all time best

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raul72
Fezzik wrote:

Reb overstates the issue with Lasker, but Lasker had two long periods of inactivity.

In terms of longevity, Lasker's predecessor was the best player from 1866 to 1894. However, people tend to forget this because the title "world champion" wasn't put into common parlance until 1886.

Regarding Fischer's remarkable result in the US Open in New York, Lasker had a perfect score in a major New York tournament, Capablanca had a perfect score in a New York tournament, and Fischer had a perfect score in New York. Fischer's result was indeed remarkable, but it hardly sets him apart as being one of the all-time greatest. All it really did was show that he was clearly the best player in America as early as 1963.

Regarding Fischer's winning streak stretching from the Interzonal through the first game of the Candidate's Final, WOW! Absolutely, it was one of the most amazing feats in chess history. But it's not the longest such streak. Steinitz had an even longer winning streak that included a world championship match!

Still, Fischer definitely belongs in the conversation. He's one of the top five players of all time. I just place Kasparov ahead of him.


 Fezzik, there is a reason Steinitz didnt call himself world champion until 86' and every six year old child knows the reason. Explain the reason Fezzik.

Fezzik, you say---"Lasker had a perfect score in a major New York tournament."

Are you aware of the people Lasker played in that tournament? Surely you're not comparing it to Fischer's US championship tournament. Here are some of the rabbits Lasker played in 1893 NY---Gossip, Olly (holy cow), Jasnogrodsky, Schmidt, Ryan, Pollock, Taubenhaus---need I continue!

Lets look at who Fischer played in the US championship not the US open (there is a difference Fezzik)---Robert Byrne, Bisguier, Larry Evans, Donald Byrne, Mednis, Benko, Steinmmeyer, Addison, Weinstein (a killer). Weinstein killed a man the following year 64' and has been in jail ever since.

Fezzik, You cant compare these two tournaments. There are many other holes in your post but I've got a life to live so I'll let someone else correct them.

dannyhume

Whoa whoa there...no need to bring Mrs. Capablanca into this, bless her dead rotting body.

Now let's go over your post...

Is 9-7 a beat down?  Because that is Capablanca's lifetime score against Alekhine Skywalker.  

How about 1-6?  Because that is Alekhine's record against Capablanca except for his one-hit wonder against Capablanca, and of course that commie scumbag Alekhine was too pansy to man up for a rematch...your own logic against other one-hit wonders like Tal.

If it takes an average of 11 games to net 1 victory, that is hardly a beat down, but I'll grant that as "opinion"  

I don't recall Spassky "waiting" an additional 3 years to play Fischer when he could have won legitimately by forfeit.  He went out of his way to acquiesce to Fischer's demands.   I guess that means that 2 of the 4 examples are "excepted", making them no longer exceptions.  Of course, we can neglect the fact that those commie cheaters in those matches (Smyslov, Tal, Botvinnik) were playing each other so the cheating wouldn't have mattered since they are all "Russians".  

And those former champs who didn't play under FIDE rules who cherry-picked their opponents and waited years for serious matches?  I guess they are legit non-commie cheating scumbags.  Funny how that pillar of freedom in chess, that intellectual cold war icon Bobby Fischer refused to play under the established FIDE's anti-commie cheating rules and then he refused again when he had to man up against another commie cheating scumbag 3 years later...a scumbag that actually ended up playing in many title matches and started losing when he stopped cheating which I guess was still before the USSR dissolved...your commie cheater argument makes less sense than any of my rambling and I gave you several reasons why rather than state it so.  My logic is flawless without reference to the mother of [chess] god, capablanca, another commie scumbag (he's cuban).   

I guess Steinitz did not revolutionize chess because of my nonsensical rambling.  Sorry Wilhelm, I have ruined your legacy.  My bad.   

RathHood
nathandewinter wrote:
Fezzik wrote:

The very first game of the Capa-Alekhin match was worth the price of admission.

Alekhin played the black side of the French and won. Capa didn't make the mistake of playing 1.e4 again in that match!

There have been many commentaries about the match. It's pretty clear that Capa wasn't used to working so hard just to get a draw. Alekhin outplayed Capa in the opening, middlegame and even the endgame.

It was one of the truly great World Championship matches, but the outcome was hardly a fluke. And, chess is poorer because there was no rematch.

We are really blessed to have had so many great Karpov-Kasparov matches.


 he played white u fool

 and it was the best match i know of

 

JRR spent a lot of time playin poker and drinkin absynthe in the night so his chess sufferd


What a moronLaughing. Ofcourse Fezzik's right! Alekhine played black and won.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1012486

batgirl

What a shark-infested pool this is!


Minnows beware.

raul72
dannyhume wrote:

Whoa whoa there...no need to bring Mrs. Capablanca into this, bless her dead rotting body.

Now let's go over your post...

Is 9-7 a beat down?  Because that is Capablanca's lifetime score against Alekhine Skywalker.  

How about 1-6?  Because that is Alekhine's record against Capablanca except for his one-hit wonder against Capablanca, and of course that commie scumbag Alekhine was too pansy to man up for a rematch...your own logic against other one-hit wonders like Tal.

If it takes an average of 11 games to net 1 victory, that is hardly a beat down, but I'll grant that as "opinion"  

I don't recall Spassky "waiting" an additional 3 years to play Fischer when he could have won legitimately by forfeit.  He went out of his way to acquiesce to Fischer's demands.   I guess that means that 2 of the 4 examples are "excepted", making them no longer exceptions.  Of course, we can neglect the fact that those commie cheaters in those matches (Smyslov, Tal, Botvinnik) were playing each other so the cheating wouldn't have mattered since they are all "Russians".  

And those former champs who didn't play under FIDE rules who cherry-picked their opponents and waited years for serious matches?  I guess they are legit non-commie cheating scumbags.  Funny how that pillar of freedom in chess, that intellectual cold war icon Bobby Fischer refused to play under the established FIDE's anti-commie cheating rules and then he refused again when he had to man up against another commie cheating scumbag 3 years later...a scumbag that actually ended up playing in many title matches and started losing when he stopped cheating which I guess was still before the USSR dissolved...your commie cheater argument makes less sense than any of my rambling and I gave you several reasons why rather than state it so.  My logic is flawless without reference to the mother of [chess] god, capablanca, another commie scumbag (he's cuban).   

I guess Steinitz did not revolutionize chess because of my nonsensical rambling.  Sorry Wilhelm, I have ruined your legacy.  My bad.   


 Dannyboy, When someone volunteers to translate your post into a language I can understand---then I will gladly answer it. I will say this though ---If you think Alekhine was a commie scumbag---you got a lot to learn about chess!

RathHood

Yeah I guess you're rightLaughing

dannyhume

Sorry, raul, I forgot...Alekhine is a nazi scumbag.

calzadilla

Raul72 are you angry ?...   If you read the book "The king" will learn more about Capablanca. Lasker is one of the best. But (my opinion) the 3 best of best are :

Capablanca (1), Fischer (2), and  Kasparov (3). That is for result, creativity and brilliance. 

goldendog
calzadilla wrote:

When Capablanca lost the crown with him he was sick and still played him since the tournament was already set up. 


Did you realize that Alekhine had six teeth extracted in the middle of his match with Capa?

Also, in what way was Capa sick? Please give the citation as I don't recall anything about him being ill during the 1927 match.

kco

"Did you realize that Alekhine had six teeth extracted in the middle of his match with Capa?"   really ? 

goldendog
kco wrote:

"Did you realize that Alekhine had six teeth extracted in the middle of his match with Capa?"   really ? 


Maybe he needed tooth-fairy money to pay his bar bill?

kco

I heard it was true for a 10 years old boy who extracted his own teeth for the extra money quickly.

marcelom2

bobby fischer

calzadilla

So, you are now saying Alekhine had teeth problem and not Capablanca health ; is like politics different view of the same event.

goldendog
calzadilla wrote:

So, you are now saying Alekhine had teeth problem and not Capablanca health ; is like politics different view of the same event.


Go ahead and tell us what Capa's health problems were, if you know.

If you're going to allude to them at least be specific.

raul72
dannyhume wrote:

Sorry, raul, I forgot...Alekhine is a nazi scumbag.


 Well, you said he was a communist, a nazi, ---if you keep throwing things against the wall, eventually something is going to stick!Laughing  Unfortunately, your time has expired. We have some lovely parting gifts for you at the door and please dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Bye ByeCool

raul72
calzadilla wrote:

 

Raul72 are you angry ?...   If you read the book "The king" will learn more about Capablanca. Lasker is one of the best. But (my opinion) the 3 best of best are :

Capablanca (1), Fischer (2), and  Kasparov (3). That is for result, creativity and brilliance. 


 Calzadilla, of course I'm not angry. I love swimming in shark infested waters. Life on the edge is the only way to go. Actually, its kind of funny. A bunch of guys, without much of a life, arguing tooth and nail about chess---its hilarious!

I wonder if checker players go at each other like this---scrabble players? 

Joe, I'm telling you Alfred Butts was the greatest scrabble player that ever lived. No, you're wrong ---it was james Brinot. He made the highest scoring word ever concieved on a scrabble board---while pulling sixteen of his own teeth without bleeding on the board. He was awesome!

Your mother has a mustache---unh-unh. Your sister is so ugly, when she was born the doctor slapped yo mama.Tongue out 

What about curling---do you think those guys with the little brooms in their hands are trash talking each other while sweeping. Yeah, you just wait buddy---when I lay this broom down I'm gonna kick your thigh bone! Cool 

Oh yeah, your mother is so fat when she eats at Sizzlers---she gets a group discount LO!

 

Does anyone have a good explanation as to why chess players like to argue so much.

dannyhume
raul72 wrote:
dannyhume wrote:

Sorry, raul, I forgot...Alekhine is a nazi scumbag.


 Well, you said he was a communist, a nazi, ---if you keep throwing things against the wall, eventually something is going to stick!  Unfortunately, your time has expired. We have some lovely parting gifts for you at the door and please dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Bye Bye

I will say this though ---If you think Alekhine was [not] a [Nazi] scumbag---you got a lot to learn about chess! 

Alekhine was a the Russians, therefore also cheater commie scumbag like Tal, Botvinnik, and Smyslov, all drones of the Soviet empire who played exactly the same as each other, as did Karpov, Kasparov, Spassky, and Petrosian...and Fischer who read the Russians materials.

My logic = flawless and a female dog.  

ruthus
Fezzik wrote:

I have found that most of the comments about Fischer completely misrepresent his contributions to chess. Many here claim he was some great attacking monster, that his chess was full of brutal and brilliant sacrifices and so on. Yes, he was good at attacking, yes, he had an unquenchable desire to win (when he finally made it to the board), but his greatest strength was the apparent simplicity of his game. You just won't find him making speculative sacrifices. He was far more like Capablanca than Alekhin. 

Here's the move that I think typifies his play as well as any he ever made.

 

Graham Burgess wrote of this position, 

This is one of the most talked-about moves in chess history. It looks extremely unnatural to exchange off the strong, beautifully-placed knight for Black's bad, awkward bishop. Yet it wins the game quickly and efficiently. Is there something wrong with the principles that would lead many players not even to consider such a move?  Not really. Nine times out of ten (if not more frequently) it would be wrong to excange a good knight for a bad bishop. ...Speelman explains the logic as follows: "...although it was 'bad', the bishop was holding together the black position. After its exchange, the white rooks can show their paces in a way which was not possible before." To put it another way, Fischer transformed the advantage of the superior minor piece into the advantage of greater rook activity. Given that the rooks have plenty of targets, this is a good trade. Nevertheless, the move came as a complete surprise to the assembled grandmasters in the press room, with the impulsive Najdorf immediately criticizing it as a mistake. (The Mammoth Book of the World's Greatest Chess Games (1998) p.348)

 

I don't know how many different ways I can say that Fischer was great. Fischer was great. 

He wasn't the greatest ever.


 An excellent contribution to this topic..thanks.

TheOldReb
dannyhume wrote:

Whoa whoa there...no need to bring Mrs. Capablanca into this, bless her dead rotting body.

Now let's go over your post...

Is 9-7 a beat down?  Because that is Capablanca's lifetime score against Alekhine Skywalker.  

How about 1-6?  Because that is Alekhine's record against Capablanca except for his one-hit wonder against Capablanca, and of course that commie scumbag Alekhine was too pansy to man up for a rematch...your own logic against other one-hit wonders like Tal.

If it takes an average of 11 games to net 1 victory, that is hardly a beat down, but I'll grant that as "opinion"  

I don't recall Spassky "waiting" an additional 3 years to play Fischer when he could have won legitimately by forfeit.  He went out of his way to acquiesce to Fischer's demands.   I guess that means that 2 of the 4 examples are "excepted", making them no longer exceptions.  Of course, we can neglect the fact that those commie cheaters in those matches (Smyslov, Tal, Botvinnik) were playing each other so the cheating wouldn't have mattered since they are all "Russians".  

And those former champs who didn't play under FIDE rules who cherry-picked their opponents and waited years for serious matches?  I guess they are legit non-commie cheating scumbags.  Funny how that pillar of freedom in chess, that intellectual cold war icon Bobby Fischer refused to play under the established FIDE's anti-commie cheating rules and then he refused again when he had to man up against another commie cheating scumbag 3 years later...a scumbag that actually ended up playing in many title matches and started losing when he stopped cheating which I guess was still before the USSR dissolved...your commie cheater argument makes less sense than any of my rambling and I gave you several reasons why rather than state it so.  My logic is flawless without reference to the mother of [chess] god, capablanca, another commie scumbag (he's cuban).   

I guess Steinitz did not revolutionize chess because of my nonsensical rambling.  Sorry Wilhelm, I have ruined your legacy.  My bad.   


I used to feel this way too about Alekhine's refusal to grant Capablanca a rematch. I no longer feel that way after reading Kasparov's  " My Great Predecessors " books. What happened is that Capablanca made Alekhine jump through all sorts of hoops to play the match with him and so when Alekhine won the title all he did was insist that now Capablanca now had to jump through the same hoops that he did and the great Cuban was either unwilling, or unable, to do so !  I no longer blame Alekhine after learning of this.....