Who was the all time best

you sound familiar fabelhaft, been here before ?

No, but I've definitely been here enough, these discussions are just too stupid :)

I always forget not everyone has good reading comprehension skills so let me more specific for those people : Fischer won the WC title the first time he made it to a WC match, Kasparov did not.  

Another thing.... the US championship(s)  Fischer played in  may be "weak" to you and if so what does that say of the US championships today ? Fischer himself complained that the US Championship wasnt taken seriously by the rest of the world due to its format : a RR. He believed it too short and thought it should be a DRR. I believe he would believe today's versions of the US Chmp are even weaker than when he was playing. 

They didn't have alot of games after 60, it's not as if the 2 wins in Curacao was impressive either, Tal was more dead than he was alive.

Winning the WCC on the first try (but only once) as Fischer did, is better than winning it on the 2nd attempt and holding on to it for 20 years as Kasparov did?

...yes Fisher did win a tournament with 100% wins (were there more than one?)...but is this better that winning 15 consecutive tournaments (1981-1990) as Kasparov did?...this record still stands today.

...and no one knows what Fischer's performance would have been if he had continued...one possibility is that he would have cemented his legacy as best ever by beating Karpov and then Kasparov, but another is that he may have destroyed his legacy with defeats from Karpov and Kasparov...so it makes no sence looking at "what if" because Fischer did not go down that path...instead, he refused to play Karpov and later Kasparov (if I recall correctly)...what kind of a "best ever" runs from the opposition? To be "the man" you have to beat "the man", and Fischer failed in terms of meeting all challengers...

...Fischer's 100% in the Candidates twice is truly amazing, but he only won the WCC once with all this...

In a limited time frame Fischer was dominant, but Kasparov was dominant for 20 years...

...it is easier to be "the best" over a relatively short period of time, but far more difficult to be "the best" over a period streching 20 years.

...so here are other records of Kasparov-

• Kasparov holds the record for the longest time as the #1 rated player.
• Kasparov had the highest Elo rating in the world continuously from 1986 to 2005. However, Vladimir Kramnik did equal him in the January 1996 FIDE ratings list.^[59] He was also briefly ejected from the list following his split from FIDE in 1993, but during that time he headed the rating list of the rival PCA. At the time of his retirement, he was still ranked #1 in the world, with a rating of 2812. His rating has fallen inactive since the January 2006 rating list.^[60]
• In January 1990 Kasparov achieved the (then) highest FIDE rating ever, passing 2800 and breaking Bobby Fischer's old record of 2785. He has held the record for the highest rating ever achieved, ever since (as of 2010). On the July 1999 and January 2000 FIDE rating lists Kasparov reached a 2851 Elo rating, the highest rating ever achieved.^[61]

• According to the unofficial Chessmetrics calculations, Kasparov was the highest rated player in the world continuously from February 1985 until October 2004.^[62] He also holds the highest all-time average rating over a 2 (2877) to 20 (2856) year period and is second to only Bobby Fischer's (2881 vs 2879) over a one-year period.

Fischer, no doubt.

Fischer. At the top of his game, he was practically unbeatable. Kasparov second.

You know Fishcer claimed that the Karpov-Kasparov matches (some of them, anyway) were colluded? interestingly enough, even Boris Spassky agreed on that one.

Too bad the man basically lost his sanity.

Hey fabelhaft ,this is not a stupid discussion ,we are learning our chess history & having lots of interesting views,no need to be negative .Seems that lots of people are enjoying these topics,if you think its stupid then don,t bother to post.Have some class man.

I have to disagree with Reb on this one, I think that Kasparov's accomplishments indeed did surpass Bobby's.  Bobby Fischer is certainly among the top 5 players ever - but his history alas will always be as the 'greatest player that never was' because of all the opportunities he denied himself.  Based on his partial performance at the 1967 interzonal, he very likely could have won the won the world championship the following year (imagine Spassky the challenger in 1972?).

My top six (as arbitrary as any, I suppose) would be Kasparov, Capablanca, Botvinik/Fischer (tie), Karpov/Petrosian (tie).  In all honesty, there is not really much seperation between the ability of the top players.  A lot of it boils down to resources and opportunities.

And for the record, why shouldn't the blitz games with Tal count?  As I recall didn't Tal crawl out of his death bed to beat Garry in the 1992 Moscow Blitz Championship?  If blitz does not count, why do so many top players (then and now) travel around the world to play it?

Keres beating Capa:  yes a young prime Keres, the greatest player never to win a championship, beat a brain-damaged returned-from-retirement hypertensive Capa who is 28 years older... and he did it an impressive once.  I guess if Magnus Carlsen beats Kasparov once in 2011 (similar top-non-champ prospect and age difference) then that automatically denies Kasparov's claim to being the greatest.

The Botvinnik stupid simul victory that gives him a false "plus" score is still nonetheless impressive because it was against Capablanca, but is still just a stupid simul and Botvinnik is 23 years younger...can't lousy experts occasionally beat GM's in simuls?  Means nothing, unlike blitz or standard, other than "because you could beat Capa when he was severely handicapped with time and multi-tasking, you will soon be a world-champion." 

Capa only finished once in 3rd place before 1934 (age 46), the rest were tournament victories or second place.  

Capa never beat Fine?  Read this passage from some random website which must be true or it wouldn't be online...

In 1931 Capablanca defeated the fine Dutch player Max Euwe +2 -0 =8. Then he withdrew from serious chess, and played only less serious games at the Manhattan Chess Club and simultaneous displays. Reuben Fine recalls that in this period he could fight on almost level terms with Alekhine at blitz chess, but that Capablanca beat him "mercilessly" the few times they played.

Thus in that passage we see that Capa is better than Alekhine, Euwe, and Fine...bam!

What does Fischer, the other greatest player ever in chess history maybe just as a matter of opinion, say?

 Morphy and Capablanca had enormous talent, Steinitz was very great too. Alekhine was great, but I am not a big fan of his. Maybe it’s just my taste. I’ve studied his games a lot, but I much prefer Capablanca and Morphy. Alekhine had a rather heavy style, Capablanca was much more brilliant and talented, he had a real light touch. Everyone I’ve spoken to who saw Capablanca play still speak of him with awe. If you showed him any position he would instantly tell you the right move. When I used to go to the Manhattan Chess Club back in the fifties, I met a lot of old-timers there who knew Capablanca, because he used to come around to the Manhattan club in the forties – before he died in the early forties. They spoke about Capablanca with awe. I have never seen people speak about any chess player like that, before or since. 

So according to Fischer, Capa trumps Morphy, Steinitz, and Alekhine...bam!    And this is Fischer in Iceland so I think Anand was champion, therefore...

...joSE RAuL capaBLanca ThE ThIrd world chaMpion --> rearrange the capitalized letters --> BEST ALL TIME.

Kasparov...

I don't say Morphy because he probably woldn't be succesful today. However, he was years ahead of his time, and if he were alive today, he'd be the best probably.

This same question in many different threads seem to have a life of it's own...we just can't seem to get rid of it...same for Mr. Fischer...

bobby fischer

Of course why not !!

  Emanuel Laskers is the best of all times.  He became the second World Chess Champion by defeating Wilhelm Steinitz.  Laskers maintained this title for 27 years, the longest unbroken of any officially World Champion of Chess.

Karsten Mueller is the best, because he has a deep manly german accent.  Which is what a student needs when learning about end games.  His hair style is also off the charts.

Nah but seriously though, I love Karsten Mueller!

Fischer, Capablanca, and Kasparov.

Nakamura, when it comes to blitz.

I would say fischer, he was a natural born player who exceeded all expectations, here is one of his best games ever: