Why an American will NEVER be a World Champion

Sort:
Colegreen

Now im going to become world champion just to spite you. You shouldnt have said that.

dmeng
cheater_1 wrote:

WARNING. TRUTHFULNESS AHEAD. NOT FOR THE EASILY OFFENDED!!!

As an American myself, it pains me to write such an editorial, but what follows is entirely true. There has been only ONE American (Robert Fischer) as World Champion since 1862 -- that's right 1862. The first reason is that we Americans are LAZY. Overweight and obese people abound here in America. HEY, chess is a mind game, it doesn't matter how FAT the person is, is what you're saying. True to a degree. But obesity equals lack of discipline, lack of self control, lack of focus. When is the last time a person with no discipline, self control, or focus became the world champ of ANYTHING?

Secondly, we Americans have a sense of ENTITLEMENT about us (BLAME OUR PARENTS). We don't want to work for anything. We expect things handed to us on a silver platter. That's why the Lottery/Gambling generates BILLIONS of dollars per year. That's why you can sue and win 1.5 million if your car gets wrongly painted at the repair shop, or you too can get 6 million dollars from a bicycle company because they fail to mention that reflectors dont PREVENT accidents-- so he turns off his bike lights and gets hit, no permant injuries but 6 million $$ richer.  We want the quick fix--free money--free anything--instant success.

Thirdly, YOUNG Americans are not smart, as a whole, compared to other countries. BLAME THE PARENTS and the EDUCATION SYSTEM.  Most parents of preschool kids shuffle them off to daycare at 7:00 AM and pick them up at 5:00 PM. They're in bed by 8:00 PM--3 whole hours with their parents--WOW!!! These types of SELFISH parents will never be up for parent of the year, and if I had my way I'd arrest them for NEGLECT. Why even have kids if both parents have to work to support them? The formative young years are the MOST important to a young child--BE THERE FOR THEM. School aged Americans are routinely in the lower percentile in Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic and that's where the school system FAILS. I was just at a store the other day and the cashier (a 16 or 17 year old) had to use a calculator to subtract 12 from 44. CAN YOU BELIEVE IT!!!??? If a 16 year old cant subtract 12 from 44 and get 32, then what is wrong with Americans??? Kids graduate from school and enter college and dont even know the difference from to, two, and too--then or than--lose or loose. WHAT??? I have seen college aged ADULTS spell with the accuracy of 9 year olds. How did they get through the system? How did they pass? Well, the USA Education system pushed them through. Below average was more than enough to graduate them. Grades were inflated to make both the system look good and make the teachers look good. Look how "smart" my students are--90% of them got A's. HA!!! Remember, this is America looked at as a whole. The BIG picture.

Fourth, we put more emphasis on throwing a ball through a hoop or hitting a ball out of the ballpark than being smart. Listen to any U.S. Pro sports athlete speak and you'll wonder if their IQ is the same as their age. Who cares if he sounds like a MORON, he didnt even have to graduate college and got drafted into the NFL, now he makes 15 million a year by catching an oblong ball and trying to run to the other end of the field without falling down for 16 games a year. THE AMERICAN DREAM.

We Americans have a strong points, but Chess will never be one of them. We will produce great chess players, no doubt, but we will never see another Bobby Fischer again.

SCHOLARLY Links to Factual Statistics:

http://www.obesityinamerica.org/bythenumbers.html

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=1

http://www.assetprotectioncorp.com/stupidlawsuits.html

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/specials/fortunate50/2008/


I have to beg to differ there. The reasons you posted are more like why the United States will never dominate the Chess Olympiads, since that would take several people. I see no reason why there cannot be another American as dominating as Bobby Fischer was. If someone is born in the United States and likes chess very much, the resources are there.

cheater_1

TROB33, I think you OVERTHOUGHT this subject a wee bit. In one of my posts I ammended it to say that there is a 99.9% that an American will never be a world champion at chess. I have successfully substantiated that. There are phenomenally smart, dedicated, driven, ambitious, etc etc etc people in the US, however, THE FACTS AND THE HISTORY SHOW WITH 100% CERTAINTY that there are NO phenomenally smart, dedicated, driven, ambitious etc etc etc POTENTIAL WORLD CHESS CHAMPIONS here in the USA. You simply cannot argue with the facts. And here I thought people were beginning to see the light. People were starting to acknowledge the STATISTICS (ill admit the sports illustrated stats were not scholarly, but who cares? They're TRUE). People were relating to me and seeing the TRUTH. Eyes were being opened. And now you come along and SPOIL it for everyone. It takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch, they say. The Russians have the LOCK on producing the greatest number of world chess champions and the USA can claim ony ONE WCC since the 1860s. FACT!!!!

drd

cheater_1 wrote:  ...THE FACTS AND THE HISTORY SHOW WITH 100% CERTAINTY

Very few things can be shown with 100% certainty, and this surely is not one of them.

cheater_1

Since Morphy was the unofficial World champ in the 1860s, all the US could manage was ONE (Bobby Fischer). Currently the Highest ranked American is 16. There has never even been a CONTENDER in the last 100 years except Fischer.

Look at a list of the STRONGEST American GM's (current) and the Strongest up and comers and you'll see that their Chess aptitude doesnt even put them in the same league with ANAND and KRAMNIK, etc etc etc. It's like comparing junior high flag football vs NFL football.

I'm only stating the facts.

noztnac

Cheater 1 is an asshole.

noztnac

The American Public School system needs to be improved.

Having said that, it is far superior to the systems in Asia or Europe. I am currently teaching in South Korea and have taught in Spain.  There is no comparison whatsoever to the public school systems in America.  The top 2% of students in SK and Spain test better than our students. The other 98% lag far behind. 

As for the laziness of Americans you are nuts.  Most of Europe has a 30 hour work week.  Most Americans I know work more than 40 hours a week.

 

You should probably do a little research before posting.

cheater_1

NOZTNAC, perhaps you should click the link that I posted in the first post that SHOW that the US schools routinely are at the lower end of the spectrum. Sure we are better than a country here and a country there, but AS A WHOLE WE LAG. Face the facts. Accept and progress.

As for the many hours that we Americans work, that is SOLELY because we NEED TO in order to get ahead. Capitalism has its flaws, and one of those is the the RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER.

Dont debate me on politics. For one, YOU'LL LOSE. And for two, It's not allowed in this forum. 

staggerlee

I haven't read all the posts, so this may have been said before.  All it takes to have a world champion, and this was already demonstrated by Bobby Fischer, is to have a weird kid born within the borders who becomes obsessed with chess.  It's going to be genetics and the accident of having chess become the subject of the obsession.  That's got nothing to do with school systems or culture or anything else mentioned.

cheater_1

DO you think one of those SAVANTS, like rain man, would fit the bill? After all, they can look at a box of paper clips thrown on the table and INSTANTLY tell you there is 168. Wouldn't that kind of brain capacity allow them to compute moves like a computer?

Where can we find a SAVANT so we can test this?

ozzie_c_cobblepot

staggerlee: yes this is the same point I made earlier. It's not that the other stuff is entirely irrelevant, it's just that even with the playing field nonlevel as it is, there will always be some world champion from a non-chess-playing nation, at some point. It's really not that tough.

People on the selling sides of these "never" bets always lose. :-)

chawil

The reason America hasn't had more chess world champions has nothing to do with obesity. It's because chess is considered to be a game for Commie pinkos, or, in the words of Spirow T. Agnew, "effete, intellectual eunuchs". It is not a manly game, like poker or a sport like American football, baseball or basketball and, most importantly, it's BORING! Americans hate all intellectual activity that doesn't directly relate to the production of armaments, (now that's exciting, thrilling even!!) oil or motor cars. Chess players in America are second class citizens. But what can you expect from a culture whose highest artistic achievement is Mickey Mouse?

goldendog
cheater_1 wrote:

DO you think one of those SAVANTS, like rain man, would fit the bill? After all, they can look at a box of paper clips thrown on the table and INSTANTLY tell you there is 168. Wouldn't that kind of brain capacity allow them to compute moves like a computer?

Where can we find a SAVANT so we can test this?


 

Brute force programs have always sucked. Chess is knowledge based. Where is

the savant who can play 1800 for that matter.

goldendog
chawil wrote:

The reason America hasn't had more chess world champions has nothing to do with obesity. It's because chess is considered to be a game for Commie pinkos, or, in the words of Spirow T. Agnew, "effete, intellectual eunuchs". It is not a manly game, like poker or a sport like American football, baseball or basketball and, most importantly, it's BORING! Americans hate all intellectual activity that doesn't directly relate to the production of armaments, (now that's exciting, thrilling even!!) oil or motor cars. Chess players in America are second class citizens. But what can you expect from a culture whose highest artistic achievement is Mickey Mouse?


 

If only the USA could produce a few Nobel Prize winners, then your argument would appear sadly foolish.

staggerlee
chawil wrote:

The reason America hasn't had more chess world champions has nothing to do with obesity. It's because chess is considered to be a game for Commie pinkos, or, in the words of Spirow T. Agnew, "effete, intellectual eunuchs". It is not a manly game, like poker or a sport like American football, baseball or basketball and, most importantly, it's BORING! Americans hate all intellectual activity that doesn't directly relate to the production of armaments, (now that's exciting, thrilling even!!) oil or motor cars. Chess players in America are second class citizens. But what can you expect from a culture whose highest artistic achievement is Mickey Mouse?


America is a big place, with a lot of people, and there's a lot more to it than what may come across on the TV you've been watching.  The ignorance of your comment is self-evident and I don't feel I even need to go into examples of American cultural or other achievements.  

Chessopov

very interesting article.. I agree with cheater..  all of the arguments are facts, but they were also facts thirty-five years ago.. The difference in eras was the 'Cold war'.. 'thanks' to it, scientific research (and chess endorsement for Bobby Fisher, one of the greatest player in history, if not the best),  were more supported than nowadays..Fisher, who had forfeited the first two games of the chess world championship, for the lack of govermental financial support (and for some lighting and camera sound issues) had to threaten the withdrawl of the championship.. but ofcourse, the government wouldnt let Spassky, Russia, wins, again, that easy..So they comply and give Fisher what he cleverly asked for..Two games for Spassky, none for Bobby, BUT STILL, HE WON... it was the only world championship he participated in, and what a shame that our "democratic, freedom of speech" government gave up on him for his rebllious and the so-true views about the regime and the "jewnited states" he used to call... Fisher died a while ago as a refugee, as any man with no money and no life achivements..

This country DOSEN't deserve another Bobby Fisher.

Chessopov

what?

goldendog
Chessopov wrote:

very interesting article.. I agree with cheater..  all of the arguments are facts, but they were also facts thirty-five years ago.. The difference in eras was the 'Cold war'.. 'thanks' to it, scientific research (and chess endorsement for Bobby Fisher, one of the greatest player in history, if not the best),  were more supported than nowadays..Fisher, who had forfeited the first two games of the chess world championship, for the lack of govermental financial support (and for some lighting and camera sound issues) had to threaten the withdrawl of the championship.. but ofcourse, the government wouldnt let Spassky, Russia, wins, again, that easy..So they comply and give Fisher what he cleverly asked for..Two games for Spassky, none for Bobby, BUT STILL, HE WON... it was the only world championship he participated in, and what a shame that our "democratic, freedom of speech" government gave up on him for his rebllious and the so-true views about the regime and the "jewnited states" he used to call... Fisher died a while ago as a refugee, as any man with no money and no life achivements..

This country DOSEN't deserve another Bobby Fisher.


 

You're wrong at just about every turn in your non-sensical, ahistorical, and bigoted spiel.

Niven42

There are still plenty of Americans that aspire to greatness.  The next champ could be out there right now.  We've got our problems, for sure, but that doesn't mean we can't solve them.

noztnac
cheater_1 wrote:

NOZTNAC, perhaps you should click the link that I posted in the first post that SHOW that the US schools routinely are at the lower end of the spectrum. Sure we are better than a country here and a country there, but AS A WHOLE WE LAG. Face the facts. Accept and progress.

As for the many hours that we Americans work, that is SOLELY because we NEED TO in order to get ahead. Capitalism has its flaws, and one of those is the the RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER.

Dont debate me on politics. For one, YOU'LL LOSE. And for two, It's not allowed in this forum. "

 


You are comparing apples to oranges. The United States public school system gives every single student a basic education that is paid for with taxes.  Most school systems around the world give a select few an excellent specialized education while the vast majority get very little quality education at all. And here in Korea, for example, parents must pay to have their kids go to school.  If the parents are poor their kids will receive a substandard education.


Class sizes in the United States are usually limited, depending on the state, to 30 students per class. Most teachers have at least a masters in education.


Here in South Korea and in Spain class sizes routinely approach 70 and almost none of the teachers have their masters.


As for politics, it is very easy for you to sit in the states reaping the benifits of it's semi capitalist system while extolling the virtues of other systems. Perhaps you should travel a bit.  90% of nations around the world are poorer than the United States. In fact, the people considered poor in the United States, are rich by world standards.  A poor person in America doesn't have cable. A poor person in Cameroun has no electricity or running water.


Incidentally, you started the political debate with your attacks on America and its citizens.  You should take your disgusting attitude to Daily Kos or whatever other socialist site will have you.

Chess.com is for the discussion of chess not some self loathing, spoiled American's diatribe against America.


This forum topic has been locked