Why are there so many scholars mates in scholistic tournies?

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Avatar of Ziryab
Conflagration_Planet wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

Teaching kids how to avoid scholar's mate also teaching those who are paying attention how to deliver it.

It can't be delivered, if you know how to avoid it.

 
 
 

My point--and this is borne upon fifteen years teaching chess to children in groups--is that any lesson presented to a group of children will be ignored by some of those children. By teaching the inattentive how to avoid scholar's mate, you prepare them for fleecing by the attentive.

One parent/coach blamed me at a small scholastic tournament (~50 elementary age competitors) that I ran. I announced at the start of the second round that I had not seen any scholar's mates in the first round. I was congratulating the children on having learned to avoid it. Five minutes later, four pairs of children were showing me their games that had ended in scholars mate. For the rest of the day, there were several every round. 

If I had said nothing, would there have been fewer cases? That was the contention of Coach Mike. 

Avatar of dpnorman

No @Conflagration_Planet I am saying I agree with you that banning the Scholar's Mate is an idiotic idea.

Avatar of ChastityMoon
HoeYifan wrote:

I dunno, but over here we rarely see this even in scholastic tournaments.

maybe americans are teaching their kids the wrong way?

More likely it means murikan kids' brains are frizzled from too much TV and digital poisoning.

Avatar of doublewhammy

Ziryab's comment was mint!

Avatar of TacoTornado

i thought it was banned i guess i should brush up and start playing it again

Avatar of DarkVlader
Conflagration_Planet wrote:
dpnorman wrote:

Yeah, that's a pretty stupid idea. I agree with your disagreement with it.

Do you actually agree with it?! Why not teach em how to avoid it, instead of just rewarding ignorance?

 
 
 

It's not rewarding ignorance at all. It's just sticking with the basic principle in chess that if you checkmate your opponent, you win, no matter how, as long as all moves were legal.

Avatar of doublewhammy

this thread keeps getting better!

Avatar of MuhammadAreez10

I've never seen someone get a Scholar's Mate, so far.

Avatar of ilikecapablanca
[COMMENT DELETED]
Avatar of Ziryab
HoeYifan wrote:

I dunno, but over here we rarely see this even in scholastic tournaments.

maybe americans are teaching their kids the wrong way?

Quite likely.

Avatar of Jenium

I used to play Bc4 + Ng5. The threat is more more subtle. :-)

Avatar of DrSpudnik

Especially against the French Defense!

Avatar of Conflagration_Planet
DarkVlader wrote:
Conflagration_Planet wrote:
dpnorman wrote:

Yeah, that's a pretty stupid idea. I agree with your disagreement with it.

Do you actually agree with it?! Why not teach em how to avoid it, instead of just rewarding ignorance?

 
 
 

It's not rewarding ignorance at all. It's just sticking with the basic principle in chess that if you checkmate your opponent, you win, no matter how, as long as all moves were legal.

It sounds like you're agreeing with me, since I'm against banning it.

 
 
 
Avatar of woton

Food for thought.

Scholar's mate, if refuted, results in a poor opening as it brings the queen out too early.  Regardless, kids (and some adults) will keep trying it.  If they know that they can't win by scholar's mate, they may concentrate on learning opening principles.

Avatar of Conflagration_Planet
woton wrote:

Food for thought.

Scholar's mate, if refuted, results in a poor opening as it brings the queen out too early.  Regardless, kids (and some adults) will keep trying it.  If they know that they can't win by scholar's mate, they may concentrate on learning opening principles.

I agree. It's stupid to ban it.

 
 
 
Avatar of woton

Conflagration_Planet

Banning Scholar's Mate in rated games is a bad idea, and won't happen.  However, especially when teaching younger children, it might be useful to prohibit Scholar's Mate in unrated club (classroom) games or tournaments.

I vaguely remember my chess instructor saying that he wouldn't allow Scholar's Mate, and I then forgot about it.

Avatar of SafetB

I just don't see how ignoring it (and protecting the unaware from it) will make anyone better (especially if they're paying for some chess education). I'd rather have it demonstrated to them why it's a bad idea to attempt a quick win with it, i.e., since it can quickly turn into a loss if the opponent knows what they're doing. For example, I like this Polgar video as a good demonstration of what I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HujWLARJyNY

I find something along those lines to be good instruction wrt the Scholar's mate and much better than just pretending it doesn't exist/banning it.

Avatar of Conflagration_Planet
HoeYifan wrote:

I dunno, but over here we rarely see this even in scholastic tournaments.

maybe americans are teaching their kids the wrong way?

The book that mentioned the numerious scholars mates was written in London by Susan Lalic. She wasn't the one saying they should be banned though.

 
 
 
Avatar of SafetB

What's the reasoning behind banning d4? Unless it's a typo.

Avatar of SafetB

Ah, ok, different story entirely :)