Why did Bobby Fischer Quit Chess

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llama47
fabelhaft wrote:

Fischer had said that he would be a very active World Champion, he would play lots of tournaments

Sure, but knowing how that played out, we can take that as an insight into his values. He despised the idea that the Soviets were insulated from having to face the best challenger (himself) and he admired the idea of a competitor who wins against all opposition.

Stil1

I doubt Fischer feared losing. He seemed supremely confident in his chess abilities.

Was there a chance of Karpov winning the match? Of course. Karpov's play fit every definition of "exceptional".

But Fischer likely didn't think so. He appeared to consider everyone on earth beneath him, as far as chess ability went.

The way I see it, Fischer's refusal to defend his title was meant as a middle finger to the world - depriving us all of another chance to witness his brilliance at the board.

"Not going to meet my demands?" he appeared to say, "Then here are the consequences: you don't get to see me play anymore. Deal with that."

This seemed to be, from his perspective, the most severe punishment he could ever deliver.

mpaetz
llama47 wrote:
mpaetz wrote:

he wasn't about to risk his reputation and his own self-image as the greatest ever no matter how slim the chances that he might be defeated.

Something isn't true just because it sounds plausible... and this sort of reasoning lacks even the acoustics of truth when you realize Fischer quit in the 60s, almost quit before the match, and almost quit during the match. Why invoke self-image to explain why he quit after the match?

 

mpaetz wrote:

All the demands and negotiations were just a sham

Except, again, he'd been doing this his whole career.

     Yes, Bobby thought throughout his career that only he knew how chess tournaments and matches should best be conducted, that all the other competitors should play under the conditions he preferred, and that organizers and FIDE were "persecuting" him by not being able to satisfy his every whim. 

   Yet every time he threw a tantrum and quit he soon came back because he had not yet proved to the world that he was as great as he knew he was. Once he won the championship chess had nothing left to offer him; the only things that could happen were a successful title defense--giving him only something he already had--or a defeat that would have punctured his image and his ego.

     Even if FIDE had given in to all his conditions, are you sure he wouldn't have come up with more demands? Or that when he got to the match he wouldn't have found something unacceptable and refused to play? The reality is that he retired in 1972 and the later brough-ha-ha was just to give him a way to see himself as a victim.

     And don't tell me how he eventually did come back to play Spassky again. That was just because he was dead broke after passing up the chance to set himself up comfortably for life and then squandering what money he did have.

Dawiddawid788

.

CreativeDreamer

Guys all you need to do is watch and listen to what Fischer had said about chess.   Fischer said he Hated chess because of all the theory and computer stuff.  and its why he liked Fischer random.

batgirl
mpaetz wrote:
llama47 wrote:
mpaetz wrote:

Except, again, he'd been doing this his whole career.

     Yes, Bobby thought throughout his career that only he knew how chess tournaments and matches should best be conducted, that all the other competitors should play under the conditions he preferred, and that organizers and FIDE were "persecuting" him by not being able to satisfy his every whim. 

   Yet every time he threw a tantrum and quit he soon came back because he had not yet proved to the world that he was as great as he knew he was. Once he won the championship chess had nothing left to offer him; the only things that could happen were a successful title defense--giving him only something he already had--or a defeat that would have punctured his image and his ego.

Actually Fischer's "tantrums" where catalysts that improved the playing conditions, compensation and respect for all chess players - which was always his point:  that chess professionals shouldn't endure the 2nd or 3rd rate venues, conditions non-conducive to the mental strain chess requires and tiny prizes that players, particularly in the West, were routinely subjected to.   His complaints weren't whims and generally weren't without merit.  Fischer simply had the clout and the confidence to do what his contemporaries couldn't or wouldn't do but eventually benefited from.  

mpaetz

     I'd be interested to know how demanding that the organizers of the Nice Olympiad provide a special separate playing site exclusively for his games would help the rest of the players. Or that the Lugano Olympiad use only the sets, chairs and lights he liked best whether the rest of the players liked it or not improved things for future players. And how did demanding that the 1972 match be played in Belgrade because they offered the most money (Spassky only asked to play somewhere that was not that hot in July) and then demanding ALL the profits encourage organizers to risk their money guaranteeing larger future prizes? 

     It might seem that he was only interested in what was best for him personally, and any improvement that may have come about later was just a result of more $$ coming into the chess world because of the cold-war publicity for a USA-USSR contest.

Contenchess

Well said 🤔

December_TwentyNine
goldenbeer wrote:
@December_TwentyNine are you his second account or just a potato who fell in love with a carrot?

I'm a carrot that fell in love with a potato. Unfortunately for me, the pea was taken

DefenderPug2

I would say that I would be a lettuce leaf but I am more of a pug.

Contenchess

Almost enough for a salad 🤔

DefenderPug2
Contenchess wrote:

Almost enough for a salad 🤔

I guess the standards for a salad is one f***ing lettuce leaf lol 😂

batgirl
mpaetz wrote:

     I'd be interested to know how demanding that the organizers of the Nice Olympiad provide a special separate playing site exclusively for his games would help the rest of the players. Or that the Lugano Olympiad use only the sets, chairs and lights he liked best whether the rest of the players liked it or not improved things for future players. And how did demanding that the 1972 match be played in Belgrade because they offered the most money (Spassky only asked to play somewhere that was not that hot in July) and then demanding ALL the profits encourage organizers to risk their money guaranteeing larger future prizes? 

     It might seem that he was only interested in what was best for him personally, and any improvement that may have come about later was just a result of more $$ coming into the chess world because of the cold-war publicity for a USA-USSR contest.

Of course Fischer's complaints/demands were to benefit Fischer.  From observation alone it would reasonable to believe Fischer didn't have an altruistic bone in his body.  But his motivation is totally irrelevant. The point is that his demands did benefit him but most of them were justified and raised the bar for the treatment of chess professionals, not only in the West but even in Soviet countries where chess was already treated with respect.  Claiming changes in conditions, prize money, etc. would have naturally evolved is wearing a blindfold to the fact that it hadn't changed in the West in that regard since pre-WWI.  Others had accepted sub-par conditions docilely and that was the expectation so when Fischer refused, sometimes forcefully, irrevocably or even when it was against his best interests, he became labeled a spoiled child.  

Fischer didn't play in the 21st Olympiad and, in fact, sent his letter renouncing his title to the FIDE counsel that was meeting concurrent to the Olympiad.  I've read about his demand but looking for a primary source to assess the situation, I couldn't find any mention of it.  The American team, composed of Lubomir Kavalek, Robert Byrne, Walter Brown and Sammy Reshevsky with Bill Lomardy and James Tarjan in reserve had mostly been decided upon already in March 1974.  Really, in 1974 Fischer, who had turned down many lucrative post-title deals, wasn't going to play anywhere. 

 

rumpelstiltskin04

twist off her nipples with a pair of pliers

DefenderPug2
rumpelstiltskin04 wrote:

twist off her nipples with a pair of pliers

Which person we talking about and why.

rumpelstiltskin04

A lot happened then.  We also quit going to the moon.

mpaetz
batgirl wrote:
mpaetz wrote:

     I'd be interested to know how demanding that the organizers of the Nice Olympiad provide a special separate playing site exclusively for his games would help the rest of the players. Or that the Lugano Olympiad use only the sets, chairs and lights he liked best whether the rest of the players liked it or not improved things for future players. And how did demanding that the 1972 match be played in Belgrade because they offered the most money (Spassky only asked to play somewhere that was not that hot in July) and then demanding ALL the profits encourage organizers to risk their money guaranteeing larger future prizes? 

     It might seem that he was only interested in what was best for him personally, and any improvement that may have come about later was just a result of more $$ coming into the chess world because of the cold-war publicity for a USA-USSR contest.

Of course Fischer's complaints/demands were to benefit Fischer.  From observation alone it would reasonable to believe Fischer didn't have an altruistic bone in his body.  But his motivation is totally irrelevant. The point is that his demands did benefit him but most of them were justified and raised the bar for the treatment of chess professionals, not only in the West but even in Soviet countries where chess was already treated with respect.  Claiming changes in conditions, prize money, etc. would have naturally evolved is wearing a blindfold to the fact that it hadn't changed in the West in that regard since pre-WWI.  Others had accepted sub-par conditions docilely and that was the expectation so when Fischer refused, sometimes forcefully, irrevocably or even when it was against his best interests, he became labeled a spoiled child.  

Fischer didn't play in the 21st Olympiad and, in fact, sent his letter renouncing his title to the FIDE counsel that was meeting concurrent to the Olympiad.  I've read about his demand but looking for a primary source to assess the situation, I couldn't find any mention of it.  The American team, composed of Lubomir Kavalek, Robert Byrne, Walter Brown and Sammy Reshevsky with Bill Lomardy and James Tarjan in reserve had mostly been decided upon already in March 1974.  Really, in 1974 Fischer, who had turned down many lucrative post-title deals, wasn't going to play anywhere. 

 

     We seem to basically agree here. Bobby was asking for more for himself and could have cared less about the other players. My feeling is that the improvements in conditions that ensued were due primarily to the $$$ that the influx of new players put into chess organizations. The publicity around a USA-USSR controversy created a lot of buzz and got a lot of people to become curious about and often interested in chess--a wonderful game that so many of us become addicted to. When federations and organizers had more resources and public involvement they could improve conditions and prizes at all levels of competition.

     But had Fischer been Argentinian or Australian or whatever and behaved in exactly the same way and had exactly the same success it is doubtful that his actions would have resulted in as much worldwide interest in chess or had the same effect on playing conditions.

batgirl

My real point is that the terms used to describe Fischer, such as 'tantrums' or 'childishness' were media manufactured sensationalized terms, made to sell papers or to maintain the status quo. Some of his demands were ego-based and some were a power plays. But as much as his personal like must have been shambles, in chess Fischer was a purist and most of his demands were reasonable expectations for a high level professional chess player.  However the lives of organizers, officials and sponsors were much easier under the status quo than when they had to oil that squeaky wheel named Fischer.  I'm not sure his nationality mattered as much as his personality.

mpaetz

     Korchnoi was another prickly personality that FIDE and tournament and match organizers went out of their way to placate. (Never disciplined for his habit of trash-talking during games, x-rays of chairs to makes sure the Soviets weren't sabotaging them, regulating just when and how Karpov could eat yogurt during games.)

     The point is that chess officials don't get into their careers because of the great wealth they might accumulate, but rather because they love chess and would like to make conditions and prizes a good as possible for chess players and will bend over backwards to accommodate top players. In most  places in modern times the resources available have been limited so they have to make do with what they have.

     Even before Fischer started complaining, tournament organizers would treat the players lavishly when the money was available. The participants at the 1914 St. Petersburg (Russia) tournament stayed free at one of the best hotels in town (Rubenstein was annoyed by the noise of the elevator so one of the tournaments let him move into his luxurious eight-bedroom flat, which was "too quiet" so Rubenstein went back to the hotel), Serge Prokofiev played piano at the awards ceremony where Tsar Nicholas II distributed the very substantial prizes.

     The Piatigorsky Cup tournaments in Los Angeles (sponsored by one of America's top women players, Jacqueline Rothschild Piatigorsky) was held at the swank Ambassador Hotel and the participants were feted at the Rothschild mansion and entertained by Jacquiline's husband Igor, world-renowned cellist. The prizes were the largest up to that time. Incidenttaly, Fischer finished second to Spassky in 1966 and seems to have had no complaints.

     In the 1970s, while Fischer was complaining about the poor conditions GMs had to endure, Louis Statham put on an annual tournament in Lone Pine California. A multi-millionaire inventor, manufacturer of precision devices and avid chess player, he was forced by ill health to move to a remote desert location. He also built a company headquarters, housing for some employees, and a fine hotel to house the representatives of companies with which he did business. This hotel was turned over to the chessplayers for a week or so every spring. Room and board were free and prizes were generous.

     It seems to me that the chess hierarchy will do its best to provide good conditions for players when they can. An organization like the USCF, which couldn't even afford to computerize the ratings until the 1990s, didn't have the money to provide the kind of conditions and prizes Fischer demanded no matter how much they might have liked to. And FIDE can only put on world-championship cycle events by putting them out to the highest bidder.

     So yes, Fischer did do something to help improve playing conditions and prize money for top-level events, but that was mostly due to outside factors and not his demands.

DefenderPug2

What if he quit because he just didn’t want to be known for chess anymore. Like maybe he was question that a different life’s path could have been chosen, and yet now he’s spiraling down to insanity?