Why Didn't Bobby Fischer Defend HIs World Title?

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nameno1had
LaskerFan wrote:

The "achievements", recognitions players got are not always proportional to their capabilities or "greatness". They are related to circumstances, environments and a bunch of other factors including luck. A 1800 level do not have the capacity to gauge their standards or talents - only masters have that.

With all due respect, it is obvious that a rather accurate conclusion can be drawn as to where to rate the past champions, based upon the data from their play. I realize there is some margin for error. However, I prefer to look at that possible fluctuation, as the same as, luck. They are both something you can't really account for, other than the fact they exist and effect things somewhat.

Also, there isn't such a huge difference in my mind between a player rated 1800 and a player rated as NM, especially if the 1800 player is on their way up and just hasn't played the games yet and the NM has peaked and on the way down.

It is some what speculative to conclude which of these players was the best, or better than one another based on studies of the data from the games of these players, their styles and choices of preferred lines of play. However, I think the thing that gets over looked is that what we consider " most brilliant" is the key. It, in it's self is opinion. It hold's more merit to us than wins and losses in a certain way, yet it is has to be considered. All of this is a bit more complicated than figuring out what to have for lunch, but it still isn't rocket science to form a pretty well rounded opinion, that has it's merits, regardless of whether you are an 1800, an NM, or just as average player.

nameno1had
pellik wrote:
nameno1had wrote:

Also, there isn't such a huge difference in my mind between a player rated 1800 and a player rated as NM, especially if the 1800 player is on their way up and just hasn't played the games yet and the NM has peaked and on the way down.

That's just rediculous. There's a huge change in the understanding of chess that makes up 400 rating points. If you're a 2200 player who just hasn't played enough games to get a 2200 rating that's one thing, but I see declining (even floored) masters take apart 'improving' 18-2000 players over and over again. Sure the master can slip up every now and then and lose a game, but the planning, endgame knowledge, etc. difference is substantial. 

I only the see the difference as knowledge gained through experience and victories of course for the most part, but it doesn't necessarily take more wins though, to have relatively the same level of understanding. If was a prerequisite, there were many players who cheated logics indomitable grip. I realize that, this usually isn't manifest in most players, but it is obvious that some rise more quickly than others, in more than just ratings, but also true ability and it's accompanying understanding.

Since you seem to be quite adept in knowing the differences between them , why haven't you converted that knowledge along with your nearly NM level blitz rating into a USCF NM title? Or maybe you only think you know the difference, " as it exists in your mind" ? Or is there another reason for these circumstances you don't care to comment on ?

Consider those rhetorical questions. I am not going to waste my time trying to reason through anymore of this. Maybe if you stopped putting NM's on a pedestal compared to yourself, you'd be one, unless of course there is another reason you aren't able to get there.

AndyClifton
DavyWilliams wrote:

If you reply to my reply here, that's further proof of that you're not playing with a full deck of cards.

 

Like I'm going to pass this opportunity up?...

 

that strident oldtimer named Davy

was not, truth be told, quite my favey

yes, my every word

he soon "non sequiturd"

(he's the dreariest ship in the navy)

AndyClifton
pellik wrote:
nameno1had wrote:

Also, there isn't such a huge difference in my mind between a player rated 1800 and a player rated as NM, especially if the 1800 player is on their way up and just hasn't played the games yet and the NM has peaked and on the way down.

That's just rediculous. 

agreed!

AndyClifton
bronsteinitz wrote:

Davy Sir, a serious discussion is based on respect for all input, even that of a very knowledgeable mind in a clownesque outside.

Hey, I am not a clown.  I'm a stringless marionette!

AndyClifton
LaskerFan wrote:

No more vilifying others to make one great, please!

Where's your sense of fun?

nameno1had

I guess for me it must be our differences over of the term, "huge". I think there is a huge difference between a GM and a 1800 player and only a moderate to slight difference between 1800 and NM, especially depending upon the circumstances.

bronsteinitz

Sorry Andy. Did not say you were a clown. We probably all are à bit clownesque.

AndyClifton

C'mon, like I'm gonna hit the OFFENDED button? lol  That would be a little too much like one of the Serious Discussions around here... Laughing

bronsteinitz

Ok, sorry, have seen all kind of reactions lately. Better safe than sorry you know. Have also started to post with smallprint protection. Took advice of my lawyer.

fabelhaft
bronsteinitz wrote:

Fischer was just a bit obsessed by his rightful demands.

If you see them as rightful or not will probably depend on how much of a Fischer fan you are. I wonder if many would have seen them as rightful if the Soviets had demanded a rule change before the 1972 match that forced Fischer to beat Spassky 10-8 to get the title.

johnmusacha

Yeah well sorry if this is off topic but, damn!  I would have given my left testicle to have lived as an adult in 1972!  From what I've seen from movies, music, and hearing about it from older people it seems like the period from about 1965 to 1974 was a hoot!

AndyClifton

Never apologize for irrelevance!

x-5058622868
AndyClifton wrote:

Never apologize for irrelevance!

gg

AndyClifton

Actually, there were a lot of riots and junk like that.  Rampant polarization and psychos of one political bent or another.  Also (and this mystifies me to this day) the 70s actually seemed pretty boring to live through.  And there were a lot of problems like gas lines and stagflation and such.  I know looking at all that hair, platform shoes and shag carpet up on screen (movie, not computer) must look wild and cool to you, but the truth is it just seemed like a last gasp of unfocused energy to a lot of people, with the 60s winding down and fading fast.  Hell, even the Patty Hearst thing seemed pretty ordinary by then; that's how jaded we had all become, I guess.

Streaking was fun though. Smile

johnmusacha

Hey Andy, thanks for the info.  I know we're not supposed to talk politics here but what do you remember about President Nixon?

sirrichardburton

I am old enough to remember Nixon, he is the only president who made me feel like an enemy of the state.Ironic that Nixon and Agnew were the "law and order" candidates. Agnew had to resign for taking bribes (both as governor of Maryland and V.P.) and Nixon was the only president (so far) who resigned from office rather than face impeachment (and likely conviction by the senate).

AndyClifton

I always call him The Trickster.  One of the most fascinating Americans ever imo (I've read tons of stuff about him).

It's like he's his usual uptight self almost all the time (seriously, the only guy who looked as uptight as him on a regular basis was Ed Sullivan).

Dan Aykroyd even said he understood why he was such an extreme character from having to impersonate him and keep up that tense stance for so long.

But then The Crook would do these truly inexplicable brain-fart things that he himself hardly seemed to be aware of...like the time he drove south to Mexico on the day of the 1960 election and hung out at some cantina drinking beer.  Or when in the pre-dawn hours of May 9, 1970, a handful of days after Kent State, he went wandering out around Washington talking to the protesters gathered (and mostly sleeping) there.  White House security was in an uproar:  "Searchlight [their code name for the prez] has left the building!"  Apparently though he was genuinely appalled about the shootings and dreaded the notion that his administration was being misunderstood (or he did that morning anyway).

And of course the Nixon/Frost interviews were fascinating.

I made a tape with my tape recorder of his resignation speech.  I really didn't expect him to resign actually (even though all the pundits had been saying that he would).  I guess I felt like I had to make a record of it in that electronically naive time because otherwise the moment might be lost to posterity (lol).

AndyClifton

I think you may have missed the point of what I was saying, Jose.  At any rate, I was far from the only person to find them a bit soporific at the time.  Here is a book about that era, the title of which seems to sum up that feeling pretty well:

AndyClifton

Perhaps aptly, I thought it was kind of a boring book. Smile  (I didn't finish it).