I tend to agree about b3. Also about the Jobava although black must be careful. I lost to one a while back at blitz. Just took my eye off the ball in an unfamiliar situation.
The point about the c4 transposition is that white will only play that if white gains by doing so.
I'm starting to get a feeling that club level in the USA isn't what it is in the UK, where we have a lot of very strong clubs, or had, before four or five years ago. But the local league system here started to fall apart 15 years ago. I think it was the recession after 9-11 which caused it. People putting work first, because they had to work. I continued playing club chess until about 5 years ago and by that time, local leagues that previously had five divisions were reduced to two. So I suppose your reference to club chess might hold at least these days.
WHY does everyone play the London system with white
Rarely is b3 a good idea in the London. And the Jobava London is a "lifestyle". It is a bit like the Grob - you play it because you want to shake things up, not because it is objectively good.
With c4, it most often just transposes into a QGD with Bf4. That is rarely seen by London players (club-level that is) because if they wanted to play the QGD, they would just play it.
No, you do not play the Jobava to "shake things up". You play it because it is a very sound opening, not purely blitz stuff, where white develops rapidly, and Black has to avoid quite a few pitfalls- and even if he does, it is still a regular game of chess. It is the modern way to play a system like the Veresov, which is of course sound, but not dangerous at all for Black, as the main positional trump of Bxf6 is nothing more than a bluff- actually a recent course for Black recommends (1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bg5) h6! right away.
The Grob is quite simply white's worst first move possible, the only question about it is if it loses by force, or not.
I'm starting to get a feeling that club level in the USA isn't what it is in the UK, where we have a lot of very strong clubs, or had, before four or five years ago. But the local league system here started to fall apart 15 years ago. I think it was the recession after 9-11 which caused it. People putting work first, because they had to work. I continued playing club chess until about 5 years ago and by that time, local leagues that previously had five divisions were reduced to two. So I suppose your reference to club chess might hold at least these days.
I cannot speak for what it is like in the UK, as I haven't played over there (though I would love to travel to Europe and play some games - perhaps once the kids are older). I can describe what I see at my local club, what I've seen at some major tournaments (i.e. the US Open), and what I've seen at some other clubs I've been to.
Don't think it does lose by force but as you imply, it's close. I believe that no first move by white is losing. Just wouldn't play them.
No, you do not play the Jobava to "shake things up". You play it because it is a very sound opening, not purely blitz stuff, where white develops rapidly, and Black has to avoid quite a few pitfalls- and even if he does, it is still a regular game of chess. It is the modern way to play a system like the Veresov, which is of course sound, but not dangerous at all for Black, as the main positional trump of Bxf6 is nothing more than a bluff- actually a recent course for Black recommends (1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bg5) h6! right away.
The Grob is quite simply white's worst first move possible, the only question about it is if it loses by force, or not.
I've never heard anyone call the Jobava London "sound". Not that it is dubious, but I suppose my comparison to the Grob was a bit misplaced. My point was it isn't something a typical club-London player is going to just randomly throw out - that will be their main weapon in hopes of getting your opponent outside of their comfort zone (which is the only reason I can justify playing the Grob). It is not the same as the typical triangle setup most club-level London players go for.
I agree that the Grob is white's worst opening. I am in the camp that it does lose by force after d5/c6/e5, but that is another topic entirely.
I'm starting to get a feeling that club level in the USA isn't what it is in the UK, where we have a lot of very strong clubs, or had, before four or five years ago. But the local league system here started to fall apart 15 years ago. I think it was the recession after 9-11 which caused it. People putting work first, because they had to work. I continued playing club chess until about 5 years ago and by that time, local leagues that previously had five divisions were reduced to two. So I suppose your reference to club chess might hold at least these days.
I cannot speak for what it is like in the UK, as I haven't played over there (though I would love to travel to Europe and play some games - perhaps once the kids are older). I can describe what I see at my local club, what I've seen at some major tournaments (i.e. the US Open), and what I've seen at some other clubs I've been to.
Yes of course. I've been so much part of chess and if of me, from 1987 when I started competitive chess, for 30 years. I've known so many older people who've died, still as members of the various clubs I've been a member of. I've been a member of seven chess clubs and very briefly an eighth. All in the North West of England, around Liverpool, Bolton, Wigan and Warrington. One may have been the strongest club in the UK. I think all but one are defunct although we could resurrect the Wigan club if we wanted. Still have boards and pieces, clocks and substantial club funds. Diesel was cheap and most of the time, parking was free. Now, neither is the case. Tournaments used to cost around £8 to enter and you could win £150 to £250 in a weekend. I won money at eleven consecutive otb tournaments at one stage.
The chess club scene has mainly gone and that have must really hurt some people. Unlike many, I never thought it likely that I'd play club chess til I drop and I stopped with tournaments about 20 years ago.
I think so too, about the London, although I don't use it.
No, you do not play the Jobava to "shake things up". You play it because it is a very sound opening, not purely blitz stuff, where white develops rapidly, and Black has to avoid quite a few pitfalls- and even if he does, it is still a regular game of chess. It is the modern way to play a system like the Veresov, which is of course sound, but not dangerous at all for Black, as the main positional trump of Bxf6 is nothing more than a bluff- actually a recent course for Black recommends (1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bg5) h6! right away.
The Grob is quite simply white's worst first move possible, the only question about it is if it loses by force, or not.
I've never heard anyone call the Jobava London "sound". Not that it is dubious, but I suppose my comparison to the Grob was a bit misplaced. My point was it isn't something a typical club-London player is going to just randomly throw out - that will be their main weapon in hopes of getting your opponent outside of their comfort zone (which is the only reason I can justify playing the Grob). It is not the same as the typical triangle setup most club-level London players go for.
I agree that the Grob is white's worst opening. I am in the camp that it does lose by force after d5/c6/e5, but that is another topic entirely.
I also guess that the average Joe who plays the London is unlikely to play the Jobava as well: The second cannot be played on autopilot, it needs from white to play actively and creatively, and as such it is one of the best openings for new players: little theory to learn, and active principled chess. Only a fool would discard it because "the horsie blocks the c-pawn".
but can u imagine how that makes that itty-bitty pawn feel ?...sooo safe !
Basically the london opening holds to be a rather easy opening upto a certain rating like the 1600s. Under that peeps usually play this and most of the time DO NOT know how they can be tactically punished on small inaccuracies. What i do recommend is study the main line and a few variations of the London and their counters it will help a lot cos a bunch of london players who dont know how to properly play it are practically idiots asking to lose in 10 moves.
Totally agree. I think beginners should look for trouble as much as possible.
No, totally disagree. White has two basic setups: with and without Nc3. Without Nc3, white can play c3 or c4. White can play b3. Different ways of developing minor pieces. It allows creativity due to its solid nature.
Rarely is b3 a good idea in the London. And the Jobava London is a "lifestyle". It is a bit like the Grob - you play it because you want to shake things up, not because it is objectively good.
With c4, it most often just transposes into a QGD with Bf4. That is rarely seen by London players (club-level that is) because if they wanted to play the QGD, they would just play it.