Why does nearly every opponent move a knight 2nd/3rd move?

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Avatar of Jalex13
Moving the knight is quite flexible. c3/f3 or c6/f6 are the natural jokes of the knights where they want to be most of the time. On the contrary, pawn moved to stabilize the center are less flexible in the beginning because you may want to expand further through e4 etc..
Avatar of JaVan33

Do i go horse to L?

Avatar of JaVan33

:wq

Avatar of Mathieu9229
1337pRoGaMeRJkEeEeee a écrit :
Mathieu9229 wrote:

It's funny you talk about playing normaly with that f5 move

What's wrong with f5? I want to take my bishop out, move my Q behind it and do long. According to analysis, f5 is a slight inaccuracy but nothing extraordinary. Idea that it weakens something blunder-like is delusional. It is more like a litmus paper to detect Q abusers.

The move is not good, but this is your problem and since your ranking is better than mine... I was just pointing at the fact it can't be considered "normal". Never heard about not moving that f pawn? 

My point is that with this move, you will indeed cause some trouble to someone at my level (and I guess at your level too)... and you "call" for a refutation of your move that may not succeed  but may involve the Queen.

Avatar of aoidaiki

In many positions (especially when no one is playing theory) there is no difference between Nf3 followed by e3 vs playing e3 first followed by Nf3.

Knights are a bit different from bishops in that it's pretty obvious where they belong (and in almost all of those cases it's c3/f3/c6/f6)... so it's a good and non-committal move.

Avatar of 1337pRoGaMeRJkEeEeee
Mathieu9229 wrote:

The move is not good, but this is your problem and since your ranking is better than mine... I was just pointing at the fact it can't be considered "normal". Never heard about not moving that f pawn? 

My point is that with this move, you will indeed cause some trouble to someone at my level (and I guess at your level too)... and you "call" for a refutation of your move that may not succeed  but may involve the Queen.

I indeed have never heard about it and literally play it very often, but yeah i see your point that this move is kinda instigatory

Avatar of Neryssa
gregory947 wrote:

One of the biggest opening principles is to develop minor pieces, generally keep heavy pieces behind and flexible. 

The knight is more flexible than the bishop by nature, so bringing it out first is preferable. You can decide where to put your bishops after you have at least one knight out. Also the knight blocks the king from castling, so you're usually gonna have to move it anyway.

Your pawn strategy is often refutable: good development and pawn breaks smash open the position and the opponents development advantage becomes overwhelming.

A castled king is always vulnerable after a pawn push. I enjoy mixing it up even more by castling on the queen's side, meaning that since most players castle on the king side, my pawns are already most of the way to breaking a castled king formation before the player has even castled. I've won numerous games within a couple of moves after an opponent has castled because they more or less castle into an instantly losing position (admittedly I play at lower levels, nevertheless, castling, imo, isn't always what it's cracked up to be and I often play (and win) without even bothering to castle myself.

Avatar of 1337pRoGaMeRJkEeEeee

I have carefully re-read the post and i have missed the point, it was more like a casual interest of the OP about most regular moves rather than some specific strategy discussion so my thread does not belong here actually, sorry.

Speaking related to the subj, while i encourage Neryssa's decision to play non-standart openings and i do that myself, Nf3 is just a default move and that knight will go there anyways in almost any case. I personally prefer to move pawn f pawn before that knight and put a knight behind it, but speaking of knights i play c3 one before that one. Knights are the things that do the frontline stuff while other pieces are more positional say sniping so you would want to keep knights active.
Hello from St.Petersburg though

Avatar of Neryssa
1337pRoGaMeRJkEeEeee wrote:

I have carefully re-read the post and i have missed the point, it was more like a casual interest of the OP about most regular moves rather than some specific strategy discussion so my thread does not belong here actually, sorry.

Speaking related to the subj, while i encourage Neryssa's decision to play non-standart openings and i do that myself, Nf3 is just a default move and that knight will go there anyways in almost any case. I personally prefer to move pawn f pawn before that knight and put a knight behind it, but speaking of knights i play c3 one before that one. Knights are the things that do the frontline stuff while other pieces are more positional say sniping so you would want to keep knights active.
Hello from St.Petersburg though

Hello from Sevastopol (the one in Crimea not the US)

Avatar of Ziryab
Neryssa wrote:

Can anyone explain why in almost EVERY game that I play, my opponent will bring their knight into play on the 2nd or 3rd move. I NEVER play like that, I always open with the queens pawn up 2 and then make a diagonal line of pawns that protect each other, most of the time it confuses the opponent as they're expecting to play someone who also moves their knight 2nd or 3rd move, and therefore don't know what the hell to do. (I usually tend to quickly remove their initial knight with a knight/bishop exchange, which a lot of the time they take with a pawn and therefore create a double pawn line which is never a good position to be in).

Furthermore, continually moving a knight away from attacking pawns at the start of a game (because they've brought it out with no protection) is also never a good idea because it greatly increases the chance of the knight just being blundered.

So for the life of me I really can't understand why anyone would choose to bring knights into play so early in a game in every game.

You are playing like a beginner with beginner ideas.

Getting your pieces active is an advanced concept for players who are better than beginners. Your opponents are ambitious. They want to improve.

Avatar of Neryssa
Ziryab wrote:
Neryssa wrote:

Can anyone explain why in almost EVERY game that I play, my opponent will bring their knight into play on the 2nd or 3rd move. I NEVER play like that, I always open with the queens pawn up 2 and then make a diagonal line of pawns that protect each other, most of the time it confuses the opponent as they're expecting to play someone who also moves their knight 2nd or 3rd move, and therefore don't know what the hell to do. (I usually tend to quickly remove their initial knight with a knight/bishop exchange, which a lot of the time they take with a pawn and therefore create a double pawn line which is never a good position to be in).

Furthermore, continually moving a knight away from attacking pawns at the start of a game (because they've brought it out with no protection) is also never a good idea because it greatly increases the chance of the knight just being blundered.

So for the life of me I really can't understand why anyone would choose to bring knights into play so early in a game in every game.

You are playing like a beginner with beginner ideas.

Getting your pieces active is an advanced concept for players who are better than beginners. Your opponents are ambitious. They want to improve.

'Beginner' and 'beginner ideas' are merely relative concepts.
I prefer to play outside the box, it makes it more interesting than just being a clone

Avatar of 1337pRoGaMeRJkEeEeee
Ziryab wrote:

You are playing like a beginner with beginner ideas.

Getting your pieces active is an advanced concept for players who are better than beginners. Your opponents are ambitious. They want to improve.

I do not like castling myself too unless it enables hidden attack or is a part of a strategy. I've also heard some AI engines prefer not to castle too until it is really needed. Not pretending to be 2k player or even call myself somehow seriously involved into chess but at my 1500 i am hardly a beginner. But that edge is quite blurry you know.

As far as i see, she tries to explore the board on her own without books, and it is a completely legit way of playing. Even though you may call it as an attempt to reinvent a wheel, it can actually be an enjoyable experience because you are achieving something on your own.

Avatar of Ziryab
Neryssa wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
Neryssa wrote:

Can anyone explain why in almost EVERY game that I play, my opponent will bring their knight into play on the 2nd or 3rd move. I NEVER play like that, I always open with the queens pawn up 2 and then make a diagonal line of pawns that protect each other, most of the time it confuses the opponent as they're expecting to play someone who also moves their knight 2nd or 3rd move, and therefore don't know what the hell to do. (I usually tend to quickly remove their initial knight with a knight/bishop exchange, which a lot of the time they take with a pawn and therefore create a double pawn line which is never a good position to be in).

Furthermore, continually moving a knight away from attacking pawns at the start of a game (because they've brought it out with no protection) is also never a good idea because it greatly increases the chance of the knight just being blundered.

So for the life of me I really can't understand why anyone would choose to bring knights into play so early in a game in every game.

You are playing like a beginner with beginner ideas.

Getting your pieces active is an advanced concept for players who are better than beginners. Your opponents are ambitious. They want to improve.

'Beginner' and 'beginner ideas' are merely relative concepts.
I prefer to play outside the box, it makes it more interesting than just being a clone

You are correct that the terms are relative. By the standards of highly skilled chess players, I am a beginner, too. Nf3 is my usual second move as White.

If you care about playing well, don’t reinvent the wheel.*

 

Mikhail Tal used this metaphor in his introduction to The Last Check by Viktor Khenkin.

Avatar of Neryssa
Ziryab wrote:
Neryssa wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
Neryssa wrote:

Can anyone explain why in almost EVERY game that I play, my opponent will bring their knight into play on the 2nd or 3rd move. I NEVER play like that, I always open with the queens pawn up 2 and then make a diagonal line of pawns that protect each other, most of the time it confuses the opponent as they're expecting to play someone who also moves their knight 2nd or 3rd move, and therefore don't know what the hell to do. (I usually tend to quickly remove their initial knight with a knight/bishop exchange, which a lot of the time they take with a pawn and therefore create a double pawn line which is never a good position to be in).

Furthermore, continually moving a knight away from attacking pawns at the start of a game (because they've brought it out with no protection) is also never a good idea because it greatly increases the chance of the knight just being blundered.

So for the life of me I really can't understand why anyone would choose to bring knights into play so early in a game in every game.

You are playing like a beginner with beginner ideas.

Getting your pieces active is an advanced concept for players who are better than beginners. Your opponents are ambitious. They want to improve.

'Beginner' and 'beginner ideas' are merely relative concepts.
I prefer to play outside the box, it makes it more interesting than just being a clone

You are correct that the terms are relative. By the standards of highly skilled chess players, I am a beginner, too. Nf3 is my usual second move as White.

If you care about playing well, don’t reinvent the wheel.*

 

Mikhail Tal used this metaphor in his introduction to The Last Check by Viktor Khenkin.

Whoever came up with the idea of selling already sliced bread reinvented how it was sold, and it's now considered 'standard'. Sometimes a wheel is there to be reinvented. happy

Avatar of 1337pRoGaMeRJkEeEeee

Ha, i've predicted a wheel quote. Check and mate!

Avatar of gregory947
Neryssa wrote:
gregory947 wrote:

One of the biggest opening principles is to develop minor pieces, generally keep heavy pieces behind and flexible. 

The knight is more flexible than the bishop by nature, so bringing it out first is preferable. You can decide where to put your bishops after you have at least one knight out. Also the knight blocks the king from castling, so you're usually gonna have to move it anyway.

Your pawn strategy is often refutable: good development and pawn breaks smash open the position and the opponents development advantage becomes overwhelming.

A castled king is always vulnerable after a pawn push. I enjoy mixing it up even more by castling on the queen's side, meaning that since most players castle on the king side, my pawns are already most of the way to breaking a castled king formation before the player has even castled. I've won numerous games within a couple of moves after an opponent has castled because they more or less castle into an instantly losing position (admittedly I play at lower levels, nevertheless, castling, imo, isn't always what it's cracked up to be and I often play (and win) without even bothering to castle myself.

A good player(which we are not lol) will see an uncastled king, rip open the center, and win pretty much immediately. Sometimes not castling is good if the center is closed, but even then, it's almost always better to commit to a flank. Good players know how to force open the center and attack, while their king is safely tucked away.