Why fake a low rating to win ??

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normajeanyates
Rael wrote:

Well, let me throw myself on this little grenade for a moment because I'm "guilty" of this very thing.

My rating has wildly fluctuated during my time here because at times I became depressed or what have you and have been known to resign absolutely every game I had at the time.

 

So my rating was hovering around 1000 and I recieved an invite from a tournament director advertising a 1100 and below tournament. I knew I had to go about recovering my rating at some point, and I agreed to enter.

I haven't lost a game thus far, and yes, in fact, it has actually been fun absolutely thrashing some of these players. I don't feel like I'm deriving them of fun, it's odd, you know - when compared against the other threads which complain of people not getting the opportunity to play against better players.

I don't think I've done anything "wrong". I've risen back to my normalish rating now, but I'm still happy to be playing these games. Not all are easy wins. I honestly don't know how you can really feel slighted by this persons genuine ability being greater than her rating reflected at the time - how else was she to raise her rating to where it ought to be?

Sounds like sour grapes to me. Are you currently second place in the tourney?

I honestly enjoy playing around the 1200~ rating range. More casual. I might sandbag in the future, who knows. At the end of the day I want chess to be enjoyable.

Haha I can't believe you actually feel slighted, slimcheffy.


Absolutely agree.

First there was this cheat-whining spam-threads [who called 'cheat' 'cheater' for good measure, the retards that they are], and now thread like this. This site is degrading faster than I thought.

Rael

I'll tell you about this guy I went to elementary school with. His name was Adam and he was pretty popular. In any case, he came up with this thing he called "ID codes" - they were imaginary points that he alone could allocate to the people in our group of friends. At lunch time he'd say "I'll give you 50 id codes for that granola bar" or what have you. Hilariously enough it worked. Oh, and he'd take id codes away also. I was just reminded of that a little.

It is interesting to reflect on the illusory nature of rating points. I mean, people in "the real world" or what have you run all in a tizzy over money, which, the spiritual teachers tell us is ultimately folly - yet money has real world applications, practical exchange value.

For the slightest moment let's remember all that is at stake here. Once upon a time someone made an amazing game with wooden pieces that people could play. Later people devised a point system to use to go about assessing relative skill amongst these players.

Right now we have a pool of virtual points and a .gif image of a trophy at stake. Mwahaha, in my villainous brilliance I devised a cunning plan to grab them all. "Miiiine!" I shrieked into the night, "it will be alll miiiine!"

Whether or not such and such an abstract a-hole exists isn't at issue here, because whatever judgement you'd like to make about them is immaterial.

What's actually interesting is observing how people act when they percieve that they've been slighted. Threads like this are created because someone cries out

"Look, unfair! I've been slighted! Someone took something from me that was rightfully mine! If only they hadn't acted in such and such a way I'd be better off!"

And then they clamour around and comiserate and pass their value judgements. "People who do such and such are horrible, awful, jerks! Phew, I'm glad I got that out of my system!" Having concluded that they're in the right they feel a little better.

How many threads on this site begin because someone feels slighted, deprived, or that they've suffered some kind of injustice.

LucenaTDB

Rael, while I disagree with some of your practices, I am glad that you are willing to share your perspective on this issue.  It allows for a discussion to see why these issues occur and perhaps by understanding them better a solution may be found.  I will not attack you going forward and hope that a meaningful discussion can be had.

First and formost--do not resign your currect games.  Not only do I think such a move is not needed but would also be counter-productive. 

You have stated that you have found it enjoyable to beat lesser opposition and may sandbag in the future.  The natural counter question to that is do you find it equally enjoyable to be "thrashed" in a series of games?  Would you find it enjoyable to play folks 300 points above you? 

Sure, you may learn a lot getting beat if you can gain some insight as to what went wrong but how long could you keep losing and still enjoy the game?  I know for myself I can get frustrated and discouraged.  However, I don't enjoy playing my kids because I know I will always win and gain nothing from it.  (well, chess-wise that is.....I do get satisfaction in spending time teaching them how to think.)

What I generally desire is a very competive game.  A game that has the chance to go either way and one that pushes each of us.  While I can hope to just get lucky and find such a game I generally rely on ratings to give a better picture of the skill of opposition I seek.  As such I prefer that ratings be as accurate as possible.  Resigning games in mass or someone who only plays lesser opponets does not reflect an accurate rating.  And to be honest this situation is less troubling to me in a game that takes 30 mintues to complete than one where I would be playing for months.

I guess my question for you at the moment is what satisfaction do you get from chess and does your game selection help to achieve that?

As an aside...for the prior poster who had some questions about rating "floors" I will get back to that topic later (perhaps after class) but don't want to have too much going on at once here.

slimcheffy
Rael wrote:

""He reviled me; he injured me; he defeated me; he deprived me." In those who harbour such grudges, hatred never ceases."
                              - The Buddha, from the Dhammapada


Hey Rael, I think we may be getting a little off topic here, the "lets quote Buddha so we can show everyone how smart we are" forum is 2 doors down ..LOL

This forum is "why FAKE a low rating to win" ?

I'm not talking about Live chess or even regular online chess. I'm asking, why would anyone purposely tank their rating 4 or 500 points to enter a tournament at a much lower ability level ??

Is it even fun to win when the playing levels are so lopsided ?

I think most people enter into tournaments because they want to have some really good games against a group of players with similar ability. WHen someone "sneaks" into a tournament 4 or 5 hundred points below their actual rating, it ruins it for the other players. They don't get what they signed up for......a good game against their peers.

Personally, I entered the 4th chess.com tournament to really test myself, I took it seriously, much more serious than my regular games and live chess.

Unfortunatley my chance to compete against others of similar ability was taken away by someone misrepresenting theirself.

slimcheffy
LucenaTDB wrote:

Rael, while I disagree with some of your practices, I am glad that you are willing to share your perspective on this issue.  It allows for a discussion to see why these issues occur and perhaps by understanding them better a solution may be found.  I will not attack you going forward and hope that a meaningful discussion can be had.

First and formost--do not resign your currect games.  Not only do I think such a move is not needed but would also be counter-productive. 

You have stated that you have found it enjoyable to beat lesser opposition and may sandbag in the future.  The natural counter question to that is do you find it equally enjoyable to be "thrashed" in a series of games?  Would you find it enjoyable to play folks 300 points above you? 

Sure, you may learn a lot getting beat if you can gain some insight as to what went wrong but how long could you keep losing and still enjoy the game?  I know for myself I can get frustrated and discouraged.  However, I don't enjoy playing my kids because I know I will always win and gain nothing from it.  (well, chess-wise that is.....I do get satisfaction in spending time teaching them how to think.)

What I generally desire is a very competive game.  A game that has the chance to go either way and one that pushes each of us.  While I can hope to just get lucky and find such a game I generally rely on ratings to give a better picture of the skill of opposition I seek.  As such I prefer that ratings be as accurate as possible.  Resigning games in mass or someone who only plays lesser opponets does not reflect an accurate rating.  And to be honest this situation is less troubling to me in a game that takes 30 mintues to complete than one where I would be playing for months.

I guess my question for you at the moment is what satisfaction do you get from chess and does your game selection help to achieve that?

As an aside...for the prior poster who had some questions about rating "floors" I will get back to that topic later (perhaps after class) but don't want to have too much going on at once here.


Good comments, I agree & think we all desire "competetive" games, that's what makes them fun. This is especially true in a tournament, that's why there are tournaments, they are a forum set up to match similar opponents together.

Rael

 

Lucena

 

... your practices...

 

Hehe. It's funny how easily I found myself insinuated into the role as that they're now my practices. Oh my.

The natural counter question to that is do you find it equally enjoyable to be "thrashed" in a series of games?  Would you find it enjoyable to play folks 300 points above you? 

 

Here's one I have going now with my friend Quix. Over the year I've been here it's happened many times.

 

http://www.chess.com/echess/game.html?id=10283626

 

 

I guess my question for you at the moment is what satisfaction do you get from chess and does your game selection help to achieve that?

 

 

Don't worry, Lucena. I love chess and I have lots of fun playing.

 

Slimcheffy -

 

I think we may be getting a little off topic here, the "lets quote Buddha so we can show everyone how smart we are" forum is 2 doors down ..LOL

 

 

I was actually reading that this morning. It's topical. What he says is very much at hand with the issue I'm discussing, which is people who perceive that they've been cheated. Like this:

 

Unfortunatley my chance to compete against others of similar ability was taken away by someone misrepresenting themselves.

 

"Look, unfair! Slimcheffy’s been slighted! Someone took something from him that was rightfully his! If only they hadn't acted in such and such a way he'd be better off!"

MathRocks1

This is wrong. She needs to stay in her own rating range. Why would you even do that?

slimcheffy

Rael, let me ask you this : Would you enter an online Trivial Pursuit game for 5th graders and pretend to be a kid ? Would you enjoy winning ? Do you think it would be much fun for them ?

guitardog

Hey, sorry to but in on the fun, but I am following this on my tea breaks and need to be brought to speed on something. Rael, did you drop your rating on purpose, just to enter the tourney? Or did you just have low rating for other reasons ( there are many....blah blah) and then join the tourney. Was it premeditated or opportunistic? I just have a feeling you are confessing to a crime you didnt really commit.

 

So?

Rael

That's a bit hyperbolic, wouldn't you say? Don't insult the other people in the tournament with me.

You feel you've been done a disservice. Got a bum rap. You are airing a greivance. Getting some good insults out.

What kind of resolution would you like?

Were you just happy to vent in the forums and have everyone say, yes, Slimcheffy, a great and mighty disservice has been done unto thee?

I've already offered to serve as the stand in for some punishment in this case. Would you like me to resign from the tournament? Report myself to erik? Close my account? Or are the insults sufficient?

slimcheffy

Why do you want to be punished ?? This forum isn't even about you.........

Rael
guitardog wrote:

Hey, sorry to but in on the fun, but I am following this on my tea breaks and need to be brought to speed on something. Rael, did you drop your rating on purpose, just to enter the tourney? Or did you just have low rating for other reasons ( there are many....blah blah) and then join the tourney. Was it premeditated or opportunistic? I just have a feeling you are confessing to a crime you didnt really commit.

 

So?


 I absolutely did not resign my games in order to get into this tournament. Chess.com got to be a bit much for me a while back and I needed to leave for a while for my sanity.

While I was away I got a message for a tournament invite from Cobalt_T who is now on my friends list due to our chats and good games during the tournament, inviting me to play. It's been fun. I'm glad to ease my way back into coorespondence chess without too much pressure - the pressure is what got to me before. Sometimes amazingly enough people want to play chess leisurely in their leisure time.

sramone

Rael, 

You are contorting yourself into knots trying to defend, what is at the end of the day, simply selfish behavior.

A bunch of people choose to participate in a tourney among people of similar skill and someone else comes along and says "I don't care what they want.  What I want is to beat up on some people and inflate my ego. And what I want is more important than what they want.  My fun is more important than their fun."

 That is simply selfish and rude.

You can quote Buddha.  You can say that it is just a game. You can say you were invited to the tourney.  You can pretend that nobody cares.  You can rationalize and pout when confronted.  You can pretend that people are making too much of this issue (I didn't start this thread and have no plans to waste any energy reporting people, but I will tell you what I think).  But you are just defending selfish and rude behavior.

Maybe this doesn't apply in your case.  If not, so be it.  The point is that anyone who does tank games in order to steamroller easy competition is a selfish, a--hole.

What I find sort of interesting is that you don't seem to care what people think.  As long as they don't tell it to your face.

Rael
slimcheffy wrote:

Why do you want to be punished ?? This forum isn't even about you..........


It's about some girl that hasn't given her side of things. Do you think that she's really deserving of the insults you're paying her? "Loser"? "A-hole"? Easy to beat up on some abstracted entity. I decided to be her stand-in and demonstrate that when dealing with a real human being there are a lot more factors to consider, as I'm sure there are in her case.

It's online chess for points you cannot redeem. Have you really been slighted? And like I said, what resolution do you want? Is this just one more "let me belly-ache" thread?

What needs to happen for you to feel at peace about the terrible greivance you've suffered at her nefarious hands?

Rael
sramone wrote:

 The point is that anyone who does tank games in order to steamroller easy competition is a selfish, a--hole.

What I find sort of interesting is that you don't seem to care what people think.  As long as they don't tell it to your face.


 Ahh so we can safely conclude that selfish people are a--holes? Okay, glad we did this then. I thought that selfish people were a--holes even before slimcheffy was wounded by the callous action of some egotistical monster-woman.

"As long as they don't tell it to your face."

... that's why I stepped into this quagmire of a thread, opening myself up to insults, right?

slimcheffy
Rael wrote:
slimcheffy wrote:

Why do you want to be punished ?? This forum isn't even about you..........


It's about some girl that hasn't given her side of things. Do you think that she's really deserving of the insults you're paying her? "Loser"? "A-hole"? Easy to beat up on some abstracted entity. I decided to be her stand-in and demonstrate that when dealing with a real human being there are a lot more factors to consider, as I'm sure there are in her case.

It's online chess for points you cannot redeem. Have you really been slighted? And like I said, what resolution do you want? Is this just one more "let me belly-ache" thread?

What needs to happen for you to feel at peace about the terrible greivance you've suffered at her nefarious hands?


Ok, first off, just for the record, I have not insulted her once. You are all over the map.

Secondly, I am not looking for any "resolution". I just thought this was an interesting situation and may provoke some interesting discussion, which it obviously has.

Finally , I think you are being way too dramatic, I'm not "suffering" at all.........I have no "terrible grievance" either..........you just don't get it.

This is about misrepresentation in a Chess tournament. You seem to think it's ok, I don't agree.

It's really that simple :)

ozzie_c_cobblepot

Rael, you are hereby acquitted of all wrongdoing.

As long as you don't do it again. LOL! muahahaaaaa!

Rael

Well, I meant by proxy on the insults, as in "people who do such and such" are "this".

I figured one good hyperbole (the trivial pursuit zinger) deserved another, and sure, I'm usually always on the side of overdramatic. Good fun eh?

I love thread-crashing.

Oh, and misrepresentation? That sounds bad. She purposefully lost games to get into a tournament? Hmpf. That's odd. I wonder why - did she want the .gif image of the tourney trophy?

Nice, well. I guess you can't really know why some people do the things they do. Glad that's been taken care of. What should we discuss next? Oh, wait, is there still more to say about entering tournaments below one's "real" rating?

/well then, by all means, carry on
//mmm games within games
///weeeeeeeeeeeeee

Rael
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:

Rael, you are hereby acquitted of all wrongdoing.

As long as you don't do it again. LOL! muahahaaaaa!


 Ah NICE! Thanks Ozzie. Lemme go wash the blood off my hands...

hahaha

ozzie_c_cobblepot

Hey all, you should be aware that the object of your attacks has several trophies he can defend himself with:

http://www.chess.com/site_trophy_list.html

"Best Author of the Month - Apr 2008"

"Most Active Contributor of the Month - Apr 2008"

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