Why is a castle called a rook?

Your understanding that it is a chariot is based on glyphs from China (thousands of miles from where the game originated) dating from centuries after the game originated. Very unconvincing evidence. No chess/chaturanga pieces from the earliest centuries of the game in India survive, so what the original piece might have been cannot be determined with any great certainty. Whether the original piece was a chariot (as in much older Vedic texts concerning war in India) or a boat (much more common in Indian warfare--especially in the delta regions--at the time chaturanga originated) is unknown. Finally, you provide no link between the original Indian names for the pieces and modern English. What would be the relevance of anything you have said?

1. China is closer to India, than India is is to India.

Buddhism is in China. Buddhism came from Hinduism. Buddhism retains more Hinduism in China than India retains Hinduism.

There are 30,000 calqued Sanskrit words in Chinese.

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/chinese-chess-came-from-india#comment-87213581

Not just China. Japan. Burma.

2. As I said before, chess pieces are made out of wood. They live on in copies.

3. Somebody already did.

LeviAJones wrote:
from Persian رخ rokh, Sanskrit roth, meaning "chariot"

But you cannot take their word for it.

4. ad hominem. Willful ignorance. Answer you own question. Take your pick.

I have nothing to learn from you.

If you want to learn from me, learn.

If you don't, don't.

Again, here ate the 4 divisions of ancient Indian military. Chariots.

If you want to learn, learn.

If you don't, don't.

1) Are you suggesting that the original Indian chaturanga pieces were engraved flat discs? And Islam has spread to vast areas of India. Should I then expect to see men dressed in thobes riding camels through the streets there? Cultures often borrow ideas from each other, but almost invariably put their own stamp on them.

2) Can you explain why the European rook looks nothing like a chariot if it's supposed to be a copy of Indian pieces? Or why there are old Indian sets with boats and no chariots?

3) That still doesn't explain how that word got to English. Chess got to Europe through the Arabs, who had no chariots, who discouraged carving figures of men or animals because it was felt that was a type of idolatry, and their name for our "rook" sounds nothing like that.

4) My scepticism concerning the certainty of your conclusions, your claim to be the smartest one here, and your ability to teach the rest of us "the truth" is perfectly legitimate.

1. Again. Don't be putting words into my mouth. Don't begin with "Are you saying . . ." "Are you suggesting". Indian pieces are figurine. Chinese pieces are "checkers". The closeness is in the name, and the movement.

Islam spread into Europe through Spain.

2. Through time, through loss of connection to the original Indian games, the pieces become the symbols of the power of their time, as I said before. Castles and Bishops are symbols of power of their time.

I have not seen sets with boats and no chariots. 

Here.

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/why-is-a-castle-called-a-rook?page=3#comment-89162375

That's a Russian chess set, not Indian with boats. and it is modern, not ancient.

3. The word got to English.

LeviAJones wrote:
from Persian رخ rokh, Sanskrit roth, meaning "chariot"

4. My claim of being the smartest is secondary. My claim of telling the truth as I know it is primary.

@mpaetz

What do you take away with when you watch this video?

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/why-is-a-castle-called-a-rook?page=16#comment-89355235

China has closer connection to ancient India than Europe.

The names are the same.

Chariot, Elephant, Advisor not

Rook, Bishop, Queen.

The movements are same.

2 squares diagonally for Elephant.

1 square diagonally for Advisor.

What we have is something much closer to the original Indian game.

Hence I go with Chariot.

@Batigirl said "boatmen", but in the same post she showed chariot.

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/why-is-a-castle-called-a-rook?page=15#comment-89348097

That's one piece of the evidence. Here is another piece of evidence.

Brazilian Jujitsu

They call what we call "the rear naked choke" ,

mata leão: the lion killer

rear naked choke is a calque of the Japanese hadaka-jime

John Danaher is going back to the Japanese terminologies, not Brazilian, not English.

That happened within a span of 1 lifetime in the age of the telephone, "sound from a distance", where you can talk to somebody on the other side of the world almost as easily as face to face. And "television", to see from a distance.

Imagine thousands of years, and no telecommunications, and no books.

Glyph language still retains 100% fidelity.

車

When you’ve shared a video on YouTube in a thread, you do not need to share the same video seven more times.

Star Trek is a good example.

We know Star Trek as

Captain Kirk, Vizier Mr. Spock

Then you, equal rights stuff

Senior Citizen Captain Picard

Black Captain Sisko

Woman Captain Janeway

But very few people know that the original formula was

Captain Pike and Number One (Majel Barrett) as Vizier

They returned to the original formula in Star Trek Enterprise

Captain Archer and Sub-Commander T'Pol.

This is like Raiders of the Lost Ark or something.

We're trying to figure out the Colonel Sanders Original Secret Recipe.

1) I am asking you these questions because you seem to change "the truth" from one post to the next. You admit that Chinese "chess" pieces are not copies of Indian pieces, yet you claim that we can look at pieces from Persia or Uzbekistan (also cultures different from India, located far from the place the game originated, and created centuries later) and see what the original chaturanga pieces looked like because these later foreign carvings MUST be copied from older Indian pieces. Why is it inconceivable that other cultures carved pieces to their own tastes?

FYI--The only Islamic nations in Europe (Albania, Kosovo and Bosnia) were converted by the Ottomans, with no connection to Spain.

2) Yes, no one said that picture was of an ancient Indian set--stop putting words into other posters' mouths. But by your own logic, a modern Russian set must be copied from an older set. Also, the Russian word for the rook means boat.

3) Again, no one has disputed that Persian and Sanskrit names for "chariot" are very similar. That still offers no explanation of how the word "rook" came to be used for that chess piece in England.

4) I believe that you are telling the truth as you know it to the best of your ability. The problem is that NO ONE has sufficient evidence to lay claim to indisputable truth on many of these questions. It is your idea that others should take your word for it and admit they are mistaken that can't be taken seriously.

A castle is called a rook because book, cook and hook were already taken.

@mpaetz

You are too stupid to live.

The greatest Star Trek episode is The Next Generation: Angel One. Look it up.

In that episode there are not ship battle, no gun fights, no fist fights. Just people explaining themselves so people can understand each other.

I owe Star Trek for the wisdom they impart to me. This is me paying back by following its example.

1. You came out of nowhere and say:

"Are you suggesting that the original Indian chaturanga pieces were engraved flat discs?"

Where did I say that? Nowhere.

Indian pieces are not flat disc like Chinese pieces.

"You admit that Chinese "chess" pieces are not copies of Indian pieces"

No, I said Indian pieces are not flat disc like Chinese pieces in response to you coming up with things out of nowhere.

Those are 2 things. A is not a copy of B, and B is not a copy of A are 2 different thing. One is the original and one is the copy.

Chinese Chess pieces are copies of Indian pieces. Not a copy in 3 dimension form, but copy in name and movement.

Where did i say Uzbekistan?

Why is it inconceivable that other cultures carved pieces to their own tastes?

They can and they do. As I said It's Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in the Bruce Lee chess set. It's cannons in the Civil War Chess Set. And obviously a "castle" in the Staunton design.

I am interested in the original Indian game.

You don't have to be an Islamic country to follow a tradition. Europe is introduced to chess through simple geometric figure chessmen. That's when they picked up the baton. They went back to their "graven images" traditions in sets such as the Charlemagne Set, but eventually settled on the Staunton Set swinging back closer to the Shatranj simple geometric set.

2. Copies can have mutations (changes). Yes, Russian chess set is a copy of of a copy of a copy, going back to the original.

@Batgirl and @Ziryab said that ancient Indian sets were boats. @Ziryab put put up that picture. I will hold the possibility that modern set is a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of the original boat. But the odds are stacked against boat.

3. LeviAJones wrote:
from Persian رخ rokh, Sanskrit roth, meaning "chariot"

Rook came from rokh.

4. There is no such thing as indisputable truth in history. You can dispute anything in your own mind. There is such a thing as "preponderance of evidence" in court of law. It is a legal concept.

How much do I owe Star Trek? When will my debt be paid?

A few facts I picked up at the UC Berkeley library today:

Chess was introduced to England by Viking marauders that made themselves overlords of much of Britain (as well as part of France) starting in the mid-9th century. The earliest written reference to chess in England is the mention of Canute, King of Denmark and England, learning the game in Rome in 1027. There are numerous mentions of early Plantagenet monarchs playing the game.

These Vikings' chess sets (oldest is the "Lewis" pieces dating from the 13th century) have no pieces resembling chariots. Vikings did not use chariots, and it is highly unlikely that they even knew what a chariot was. The "rooks" in these early sets were simply warriors, similar to pawns but the size of the knights and bishops. They are often biting their shields or displaying some sort of "wild" behavior, meaning they likely represent berserkers.

An Old Norse (and Old Icelandic) word "hroki", meaning to fill to overflowing, also came to be used to denote someone overly aggressive, erratic and raucous. The term, modified to "hrokr", was given to the bird species Corvus Frugilegus. The English (and Old Danish) words for this bird are "rook" (roogh).

The Icelandic word for the chess piece we call a rook is hrokur, which also means Corvus Frugilegus. It seems possible that the English took our word for the chess "rook" from the same source from which they received the game itself.

What does that mean exactly?

The English word for the rook means "castle".

♖

Show me the Russian word. In Cyrillic.