Why isn't there touch move online?
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I think missclicks would be too common
A very pertinent question indeed.
As picking up a piece with the mouse ... hovering over a square (visualizing the position) then returning the piece to it’s original square and playing another move-
Violates the OTB touch move rule.
It could be said - an unethical practice.
But everybody does it - Why is it permitted? As chess interfaces are written, the practice can not be prevented. But I suppose it could be so programmed - click on a piece and it must be moved.
The practice is a form of outside help. Allowing pieces to be picked up, any number of them, hovering over a square and deciding on another move.
An outrage ! The practice is not in keeping with the spirit and ethics of OTB play.
It has become so ingrained and accepted as standard practice that it will never change.
Perhaps a program will be written in the future - click it ... move it !!
SpacePodz wrote:
I think missclicks would be too common
Not the point. Keep your mouse off the pieces until a move is decided. Click on it - it must be moved. No such thing as “miss-touches” in OTB allowing another move to be played. Touch it ... move it. If online were to truly mimic OTB - click it ... move it. Changing to another move would not be permitted.
The practice is so ingrained players universally think nothing of it, don’t give a second thought to using a visualization tool as outside help.
Mar 23, 2021
0
#6
In OTB play, if the power goes out in the playing hall, do the players who are on the move automatically lose?
Why not? It works that way in online play! You get disconnected, you lose.
Well, I feel that accidentally picking up a piece is much harder than actually picking up a piece online. It just takes one click online. So I feel like it would be a dumb thing to add. It would lead to a lot more problems than positives imo. But hey, agree to disagree.
Other differences:
- OTB you need to hit the clock and lose time doing so.
- You promote by swapping peices and lose time doing so.
- You need to move two pieces to castle and lose time doing so.
- You need to have clothes on...I assume.
I'm OK with on-line having different rules than OTB. 'Cause who wants to get dressed just to play chess.
Mar 23, 2021
0
#10
You also need to use the same hand to move the pieces and hit the clock.
... even if you're dressed.
The piece must still be physically moved after clicking on it.
This is no accident.
Hover the mouse over the pieces online - same as hovering a hand OTB. Drop down to touch a piece or click on a piece- it’s the same action. Online - pieces are not accidentally moved because they are clicked on (unless only move). They must be physically moved by the mouse. If the touch move rule that applies OTB is followed - then this piece must be moved.
I’m not advocating for the practice to end - to rewrite chess programs to accommodate the OTB rule.
Only pointing out that the practice -
is of outside assistance in nature and contrary to OTB rules
The disciplines have quite a few differences of rules. This ability to pick up pieces online - hover over squares and visualize the position (then change your mind and move another piece) will likely be with us forever.
I guess it would be Interesting if it was like a different game mode though.
I think it’s like everything else. Chess programs originally operated in this fashion permitting the practice which became the norm. Players approved of the assisted help. Would be up in arms after years off playing in a certain way. Chess sites are not about to rewrite programs and disgruntle members.
I wonder - just how many players understand that the practice is of outside assistance for deciding which move to play?
It is a luxury that online affords - the ability to concretely visualize one move in advance and change your mind - one that OTB does not afford.
StormCentre3 wrote:
A very pertinent question indeed.
As picking up a piece with the mouse ... hovering over a square (visualizing the position) then returning the piece to it’s original square and playing another move-
Violates the OTB touch move rule.
It could be said - an unethical practice.
But everybody does it - Why is it permitted? As chess interfaces are written, the practice can not be prevented. But I suppose it could be so programmed - click on a piece and it must be moved.
The practice is a form of outside help. Allowing pieces to be picked up, any number of them, hovering over a square and deciding on another move.
An outrage ! The practice is not in keeping with the spirit and ethics of OTB play.
It has become so ingrained and accepted as standard practice that it will never change.
Perhaps a program will be written in the future - click it move it>>
It would cause many people not to play online, because clicking a mouse on a point on a screen is different from touching a piece on a board. Mistakes would be made. There's no reason why online play should exactly mirror otb play. If online did mirror otb then it would be allowed to set up a board in rapid or something and make the moves on the board, but for some rather inexplicable reason, that isn't allowed, so online is not allowed to mimic otb. It isn't even rational to forbid setting up a board in rapid, since it only penalises non-cheats, because, if someone is going to cheat at rapid, they would be breaking a rule and so breaking another one isn't going to bother them.
The long and the short is that online doesn't exactly duplicate otb play and there's no reason that it should, because it's different.
And just what is the difference ??
What mistake is made ??
The mouse pointer is hovering over a piece - it requires physical purpose and intent to click on the piece. This is necessary to move the piece. The action is completely intentional- the action does not occur by accident.
Click it - move it. (online) would be equivalent to
Touch it - move it. (OTB)
But online allows for the opportunity to change ones mind and play another move.
A lot of people aren't as adept as you may be at mouse control. Some, like me at the moment, are using a finger pad, which sometimes don't work quite right. I have a wireless mouse standing by .... it's one of those that turn themselves on only if you use it, because sometimes the finger pad seems to seize up. So really it's just errors in mouse manipulation. There's no need to penalise people for that.
And yes, it can easily occur by accident if using a finger pad. Another problem is that it would be a waste of bandwidth. It would negatively impact other aspects of the service offered by chess.com due to the drain it would make on processing capability.
To clarify, you couldn't hover with my finger pad, because it requires only about a gram extra pressure to click. That is, in the heat of the moment you would click.
The topic asks why is the practice permitted.
I suggest it is about the original programs as they were written to facilitate online play. We do not know the motives or reasons that allow for the practice but I suspect it is more about ease of programming a workable interface for playing. Online a move is determined, made final by the dropping (release) of the piece. Simple. Programmers afforded players the opportunity to change their minds and not move the piece if it wasn’t dropped. Not only that - players could return the piece and move a different piece!
Why? How come? It has nothing to do with possible perceived mistakes, ease of use, hardware used or any of that- but rather ease of programming. The original programmers afforded the luxury of allowing a move to be changed if the piece is not physically released once touched. This could have been written differently at the beginnings. The practice became the norm and is not about to be changed. Online players enjoy the luxury of visualization of 1/2 move in advance. One that OTB rules prohibit. Players would shout bloody epitaphs is they could no longer visualize positions by picking up any piece and seeing just how the position looks and not being able to change their minds.
Ironic isn’t it? The practice is clearly of outside assistance in deciding which move to play. 100% illegal OTB.
Like if you touch a piece OTB you have to move it, but why doesn't the same principle apply online?