Winning on premoves

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jtt96

Is there a way to win a K and Q vs. K endgame completely on premoves? assuming your opponent gives you enouph time to enter the premove.

TheGrobe

Even if you could manage to get your opponent's king cornered exclusively with pre-moves, I suspect that there would always be a possibility of stalemate.

Dragec
To dangerous I would say, because of stalemate. But you could combine it with regular moves, it's just a few moves till checkmate anyway.
DrawMaster

If you cannot know the next move for the lone K, only the most trivial position of K+Q v K is winnable on premoves alone (i.e., no knowledge of the lone K's moves). Mate in 1, with either side to move would work without knowledge of the opponent's moves, would work. If you have to see the movement of the lone K to decide on the Q or K move to make, then you cannot use premove and be sure of anything. Yes, you could luck in to longer mate, I'm sure. But you could just as easily lose your Q or make an illegal K move. Of course, I might have misunderstood your question to begin with.

Dragec
checkmate takes 10 moves at most, and usually less than that. So you could use premobes for confining a king towards the edge of a board, but you should be carefull when a wrong move could cause stalemate.
skogli

That's no problem if you can enter many lines, I'm not a paying member so I can just premvove one line.

Stalemate is no real danger.

Dragec
skogli, premoves (for live chess) are different from conditional moves (in online chess). Premoves are essentially "any move" conditional moves, and will not be played only if entered premove becomes illegal(due to a check or something else). So there is a chance of stalemate.
Dragec
support.chess.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=696
skogli

ok, I did read a bit fast then, premove in live chess is a bit more dangerous!

 

So the answer is:

No way you can premove to mate in live chess, somewere your opponent does a move that don't fit in your plans.

skogli

Premove in livechess is so you can play a move without using time at all, premove in "postal" is so you can let the game go on alone while you do something better Cool

jtt96

So if I can't premove mate with a queen, what is the smallest amount of material where it is possible? I can see two rooks being easy.

skogli

You can only premove to mate if it's a forced line, don't be stupid.

jtt96
skogli

I think we all know how to mate with 2 rooks, how does this prove annything?

Black could have gone anny other way with his king many times, if it happens once you have to do a move live, then it's not a premove.

jtt96

It could  be done with premoves. I challenge everyone here to a premove game.

You need to capture one of my rooks to win, I need to checkmate your king in order to win.

I will tell you my premove because it wont matter.
jtt96

My premove is Rh1-h3

Campione

You can do it much faster. For instance, in your first diagram, 11 Rh7, etc.

shoopi
Here is an attempt to mate with KQ vs. K using premoves only. Notice how all the moves white makes are completely safe.
ILuvPawn
@jtt96 on post #14 - Here is a sequence of moves that Black can play that refute the set of premoves that you have listed for White.
 
ILuvPawn

@ shoopi on post #19. White's premoves may not be completely safe.