Perhaps you should choose your words more carefully...
Women's World Chess Champion fails Bishop+Knight mate
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BloodyJack wrote:
TitanCG wrote:
I didn't ask for anyone's opinion on it's difficulty... I only noted on how rare it is to get by mentioning that I've only played it once. Like I said you need to chill out.
Nevermind, just forget I asked the question
Also I wasn't being... Whatever the opposite of chill is. I guess emotion is just hard to judge through simple text?
Hot-headed maybe? You didn't seem hot-headed at all.
Not a big fan of the headline on this thread. Definitely seems to be an element, probably unintentional, of trolling on Ushenina's gender. How about "GM Anna Ushenina misses Bishop + Knight mate," or "Girya saves draw as Ushenina misses Bishop + Knight mate at Women's Grand Prix." Worth noting that Ushenina is seeded 9th of 12 in the tournament as well.
Jeez, there are a lot of people taking a great deal offence at some innocuous wordings in this thread! People got nothing better to do?
-waller- wrote:
Jeez, there are a lot of people taking a great deal offence at some innocuous wordings in this thread! People got nothing better to do?
+1
Call_me_Ishmael wrote:
Not a big fan of the headline on this thread. Definitely seems to be an element, probably unintentional, of trolling on Ushenina's gender. How about "GM Anna Ushenina misses Bishop + Knight mate," or "Girya saves draw as Ushenina misses Bishop + Knight mate at Women's Grand Prix." Worth noting that Ushenina is seeded 9th of 12 in the tournament as well.
Let's not see things where there are none. Ushenina is, after all, not a simple GM, but the world champion. Any world champion? No, that's Anand, so she's WOMEN's World Champion.
Actually, the idea that the title of the thread might imply that women are stupid at chess didn't even enter my mind until I read comment #47.
I don't think it is a gender issue since i'm sure a similar headline would appear if Anand failed to mate with B+N.
I think the B+N mating pattern needs to be practiced one in a while to keep it in memory since it rarely comes up in games. I consider it similar to learning and remembering languages.
To be fair B+N isn't simple, especially if you only learned it once forever ago and then never had to actually apply it in a practical game until you've forgotten most of the theory.
Lets be honest here, this truly is shocking. You guys are talking about people at 1800 or 2000 or whatever ratings... but folks, she is World Champion! Are you kidding me? I would like to believe that anyone that achieves that title is skilled enough to find this mate OTB if there is enough time, and clearly she had a LOT of time left on the clock. We're not talking about having to blitz out the moves.
This mate is not hard and people rated 1200 learn it easily, specially the Deletang's method which I also find the easiest.
What about encountering an endgame of King+2 knights vs. kind+pawn, where depending on the possition of the pawn, a mate can be forced! That one requires much more skill if you ask me and some guys have done it OTB.
i have to agree with lifesnotfair. even if she doesn't know the mating pattern, a 2500 player should now how knights and bishops work together, how to control squares efficiently. that's pretty much all it takes to mate with knight and bishop. that, and a few waiting moves. it's quite tragic lol
Definitely.
Maybe she panicked when she realized she forgot the pattern, which clouded her thinking process or something... who knows.
She will never forget this. Unbelievable.
The B+N mating pattern can be tricky if you don't recall it correctly. A slight mistake against someone that knows where to go is devastating, since the chase has to start all over again.
I played an OTB game against someone i felt was about 2100. He had the B+N against me, but my knowledge of it seemed to be better than his at the time. I kept slipping through the cracks and he couldn't catch me in 50 moves.
lifesnotfair wrote:
What about encountering an endgame of King+2 knights vs. kind+pawn, where depending on the possition of the pawn, a mate can be forced! That one requires much more skill if you ask me and some guys have done it OTB.
... and some guys, like Karpov, have failed that one OTB.
Drak0dan wrote:
To be fair B+N isn't simple, especially if you only learned it once forever ago and then never had to actually apply it in a practical game until you've forgotten most of the theory.
I agree.
I would love for prfen to comment on this subject.
Would it be offensive/sexist to say this woman was indecisive?
Zinsch wrote:
BloodyJack wrote:
Zinsch wrote:
When you are a professional chess player and world champion, you should have found the time and put in the effort at one point in your career at least. My guess is that most 2000 ELO players can check-mate with knight and bishop.
In an over the board game I wouldn't say most. Maybe not even half.
I checked with my data base and filtered for players (the one with knight and bishop) between 1850 and 2100 ELO. I got 26 games, 2 of which were resigned before the player could show the technique (or notation is just incomplete), 17 check-mated (or won by resignation, because check-mate was just a few moves away), 7 failed to mate. So 73% won their game.
Anyone with more games can search their database, but I don't think, that the result will change too much.
Did a search in my database, finding a total of 115 games where a player rated 1800-2100 ends up with K+B+N vs K.
75 times B+N wins, 40 times draws.
A few of the times the game is resigned without a mate anywhere close, at least once the draw is forced given the starting position of the B+N (one can be captured). Still it gives about a 64-65% chance of mate.
Incredible. It's not just that Ushenina didn't know how to force the mate, she couldn't even work it out with plenty of time on the clock.
There just isn't a good explanation of how anyone could be +2200 and not be able to figure it out with plenty of time on the clock.
The Q vs R endgame is infinitely more difficult than this. I would expect every student to have seen the B+N mate in a basic instruction book at least once or twice on the way to becoming a strong player.
I didn't ask for anyone's opinion on it's difficulty... I only noted on how rare it is to get by mentioning that I've only played it once. Like I said you need to chill out.
Nevermind, just forget I asked the question
Also I wasn't being... Whatever the opposite of chill is. I guess emotion is just hard to judge through simple text?