Chess Playing Nations

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checkmmm8
Sambirder wrote:

They probably thought it was too Western of a game. Fellow Iranians on chess.com, what was it?


I'm fairly sure chess originated in the east, wikipedia says it is commonly believed it started in north-east India which probably means in the east somewhere Tongue out

rubygabbi
by marvellosity
You're missing the point. The question isn't whether they are able to represent their country (of course they are), the question is whether the country is producing the players. Clearly if they're only naturalised then the country has not produced them, which is the debate at hand.
The only country I know of that actually "produces" chess players is Russia, in which authorities directly aid and assist promising players.But that still doesn't mean that Russians per se are better than non-Russians. I could equally put forth the ludicrous claim that Jews make better chess players since nearly 50% of all the World Champion (and all-time strongest players are of Jewish decent. There is simply no scientific connection. 
by Atos
The relevant question is not where they were born but where their chess skills were formed...
As I mentioned above, this would be correct only for Russia. All other geographical locations have no relevance whatsoever concerning how good/poor a player is.
  About the American example, I don't view Reshevsky as being representative of the American chess either.
Of course he isn't, because there is no such thing as "American chess", "Israeli chess", "Russian chess", or whatever. Even national teams representing their countries in the Olympiad are composed of players possessing a variety of styles and preferences and do not represent any national "school of chess."
philidorposition
Sambirder wrote:

They probably thought it was too Western of a game. Fellow Iranians on chess.com, what was it?


I think this discussion could clarify a few points. Not convincing, but I couldn't find anything else.

rubygabbi
RetGuvvie98 wrote:
rubygabbi wrote:
by marvellosity
You're missing the point. The question isn't whether they are able to represent their country (of course they are), the question is whether the country is producing the players. Clearly if they're only naturalised then the country has not produced them, which is the debate at hand.
The only country I know of that actually "produces" chess players is Russia, in which authorities directly aid and assist promising players.But that still doesn't mean that Russians per se are better than non-Russians. I could equally put forth the ludicrous claim that Jews make better chess players since nearly 50% of all the World Champion (and all-time strongest players are of Jewish decent. There is simply no scientific connection. 
by Atos
The relevant question is not where they were born but where their chess skills were formed...
As I mentioned above, this would be correct only for Russia. All other geographical locations have no relevance whatsoever concerning how good/poor a player is.
  About the American example, I don't view Reshevsky as being representative of the American chess either.
Of course he isn't, because there is no such thing as "American chess", "Israeli chess", "Russian chess", or whatever. Even national teams representing their countries in the Olympiad are composed of players possessing a variety of styles and preferences and do not represent any national "school of chess."

 

While that may be true today, I believe I recall reading an article that stated:   when the Polgar sisters were really little, their father persuaded the political authorities in their country (not Russia)  to fund him for a "social experiment" to raise the children - 3 girls - to become superb chessplayers while educating them fully in other educational required subjects at home.

   The success of his "home-study" program in undeniable, although whether they were genetically disposed to excel at chess or whether the skills can be entirely learned is possibly still something that isn't fully decided.


The country was Hungary, and your example only proves my point: this can happen anywhere, whether genetics are a factor or not.Geography simply plays no part in it. 

Sambirder

Rather, it proves RetGuvvie's point; Hungary was an Iron Curtain country and a Soviet satellite

rubygabbi
Sambirder wrote:

Rather, it proves RetGuvvie's point; Hungary was an Iron Curtain country and a Soviet satellite


 ...which proves nothing, either! Soviet communism fell when Judit Polgar was about 10 years old. The experiment was not conducted under any "Soviet guidelines."  Should we say the Polgars are expert players because they are Jewish? Or ate goulash?  The only common denominators are potential, training and experience - not nationality.

Atos
rubygabbi wrote:
RetGuvvie98 wrote:
rubygabbi wrote:
by marvellosity
You're missing the point. The question isn't whether they are able to represent their country (of course they are), the question is whether the country is producing the players. Clearly if they're only naturalised then the country has not produced them, which is the debate at hand.
The only country I know of that actually "produces" chess players is Russia, in which authorities directly aid and assist promising players.But that still doesn't mean that Russians per se are better than non-Russians. I could equally put forth the ludicrous claim that Jews make better chess players since nearly 50% of all the World Champion (and all-time strongest players are of Jewish decent. There is simply no scientific connection.
by Atos
The relevant question is not where they were born but where their chess skills were formed...
As I mentioned above, this would be correct only for Russia. All other geographical locations have no relevance whatsoever concerning how good/poor a player is.
About the American example, I don't view Reshevsky as being representative of the American chess either.
Of course he isn't, because there is no such thing as "American chess", "Israeli chess", "Russian chess", or whatever. Even national teams representing their countries in the Olympiad are composed of players possessing a variety of styles and preferences and do not represent any national "school of chess."

 

While that may be true today, I believe I recall reading an article that stated: when the Polgar sisters were really little, their father persuaded the political authorities in their country (not Russia) to fund him for a "social experiment" to raise the children - 3 girls - to become superb chessplayers while educating them fully in other educational required subjects at home.

The success of his "home-study" program in undeniable, although whether they were genetically disposed to excel at chess or whether the skills can be entirely learned is possibly still something that isn't fully decided.


The country was Hungary, and your example only proves my point: this can happen anywhere, whether genetics are a factor or not.Geography simply plays no part in it.


I think you are misrepresenting the point, I don't think I or anyone else stated or implied that it's about genetics or geography. It's about culture and politics, and Israel will always pay much more attention to third-rate football players who were born in in the country than the first-rate chess players who were not. I mean it's not like I am complaining about this, quite the opposite.

On the second note I see that there was someone twisting the issues at hand here, that someone learned chess somewhere is not quite the same as being "produced", any more than the fact that some citizens end up learning basic logic would be a bad reflection on a country, but I guess I'll leave that for the next post.

chatakkuma

Chess in South Korea is not a popular sport. There's one GM, called Alexey Kim who transferred from Russia but South Korea has absolutely no future in chess. There's not many tournaments, and people are too much focused on Go that chess is not mentioned.

Dum_S

rooperi wrote:

There have been threads about the strongest nations, Russia, (most GMs), Iceland (most GM's per capita), Netherlands (most Gm's per square km), but why do some countries just not shape?

A while ago (maybe 10 years) I read that Japan was the largest population to never produce a GM, dont know if that's true anymore? Why is that?

And closer to home (for me), South Africa, with a population of almost 50 million has never produced a GM. The closest was Watu Kobese who got 2 norms, but that was also years ago.

If you take the top 6 players with the surname Milosovic from Serbia (population about 5 million?) and have a team match against the top 6 South Africans, the Milosovic's have a great chance of beating us.

Is it bad organisation? The fact that there are hardly any Fide tournaments here? Simple geography/economics, in that players have to travel to Europe to play Fide tournaments?

I worry about stuff like this.....

[edit: and to my mate, Zoran Milosovic, who played for Pretoria chess club for a while, and then returned to Serbia, if you read this, Hi from everybody at the club :)]

Any Muslim country , according to them (their philosophers) chess is a Haram and one should not play it...

BugrAydin
RUSHIKESH007 yazdı:
rooperi wrote:

There have been threads about the strongest nations, Russia, (most GMs), Iceland (most GM's per capita), Netherlands (most Gm's per square km), but why do some countries just not shape?

A while ago (maybe 10 years) I read that Japan was the largest population to never produce a GM, dont know if that's true anymore? Why is that?

And closer to home (for me), South Africa, with a population of almost 50 million has never produced a GM. The closest was Watu Kobese who got 2 norms, but that was also years ago.

If you take the top 6 players with the surname Milosovic from Serbia (population about 5 million?) and have a team match against the top 6 South Africans, the Milosovic's have a great chance of beating us.

Is it bad organisation? The fact that there are hardly any Fide tournaments here? Simple geography/economics, in that players have to travel to Europe to play Fide tournaments?

I worry about stuff like this.....

[edit: and to my mate, Zoran Milosovic, who played for Pretoria chess club for a while, and then returned to Serbia, if you read this, Hi from everybody at the club :)]

Any Muslim country , according to them (their philosophers) chess is a Haram and one should not play it...

this was very funny explain, because of that last women world championship organazed in saudi arabia? also there are too many muslim grandmasters and also if we look from percent(%) turkey has more grandmasters than india have

Dum_S

BugrAydin wrote:

RUSHIKESH007 yazdı:
rooperi wrote:

There have been threads about the strongest nations, Russia, (most GMs), Iceland (most GM's per capita), Netherlands (most Gm's per square km), but why do some countries just not shape?

A while ago (maybe 10 years) I read that Japan was the largest population to never produce a GM, dont know if that's true anymore? Why is that?

And closer to home (for me), South Africa, with a population of almost 50 million has never produced a GM. The closest was Watu Kobese who got 2 norms, but that was also years ago.

If you take the top 6 players with the surname Milosovic from Serbia (population about 5 million?) and have a team match against the top 6 South Africans, the Milosovic's have a great chance of beating us.

Is it bad organisation? The fact that there are hardly any Fide tournaments here? Simple geography/economics, in that players have to travel to Europe to play Fide tournaments?

I worry about stuff like this.....

[edit: and to my mate, Zoran Milosovic, who played for Pretoria chess club for a while, and then returned to Serbia, if you read this, Hi from everybody at the club :)]

Any Muslim country , according to them (their philosophers) chess is a Haram and one should not play it...

this was very funny explain, because of that last women world championship organazed in saudi arabia? also there are too many muslim grandmasters and also if we look from percent(%) turkey has more grandmasters than india have

Sorry if my last comment hurt you but I made this conclusion from a news... here's the link https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/21/chess-forbidden-in-islam-rules-saudi-arabia-grand-mufti

Dum_S

BugrAydin wrote:

RUSHIKESH007 yazdı:
rooperi wrote:

There have been threads about the strongest nations, Russia, (most GMs), Iceland (most GM's per capita), Netherlands (most Gm's per square km), but why do some countries just not shape?

A while ago (maybe 10 years) I read that Japan was the largest population to never produce a GM, dont know if that's true anymore? Why is that?

And closer to home (for me), South Africa, with a population of almost 50 million has never produced a GM. The closest was Watu Kobese who got 2 norms, but that was also years ago.

If you take the top 6 players with the surname Milosovic from Serbia (population about 5 million?) and have a team match against the top 6 South Africans, the Milosovic's have a great chance of beating us.

Is it bad organisation? The fact that there are hardly any Fide tournaments here? Simple geography/economics, in that players have to travel to Europe to play Fide tournaments?

I worry about stuff like this.....

[edit: and to my mate, Zoran Milosovic, who played for Pretoria chess club for a while, and then returned to Serbia, if you read this, Hi from everybody at the club :)]

Any Muslim country , according to them (their philosophers) chess is a Haram and one should not play it...

this was very funny explain, because of that last women world championship organazed in saudi arabia? also there are too many muslim grandmasters and also if we look from percent(%) turkey has more grandmasters than india have

Sorry if my last comment hurt you but I made this conclusion from a news... here's the link https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/21/chess-forbidden-in-islam-rules-saudi-arabia-grand-mufti

Dum_S

BugrAydin wrote:

RUSHIKESH007 yazdı:
rooperi wrote:

There have been threads about the strongest nations, Russia, (most GMs), Iceland (most GM's per capita), Netherlands (most Gm's per square km), but why do some countries just not shape?

A while ago (maybe 10 years) I read that Japan was the largest population to never produce a GM, dont know if that's true anymore? Why is that?

And closer to home (for me), South Africa, with a population of almost 50 million has never produced a GM. The closest was Watu Kobese who got 2 norms, but that was also years ago.

If you take the top 6 players with the surname Milosovic from Serbia (population about 5 million?) and have a team match against the top 6 South Africans, the Milosovic's have a great chance of beating us.

Is it bad organisation? The fact that there are hardly any Fide tournaments here? Simple geography/economics, in that players have to travel to Europe to play Fide tournaments?

I worry about stuff like this.....

[edit: and to my mate, Zoran Milosovic, who played for Pretoria chess club for a while, and then returned to Serbia, if you read this, Hi from everybody at the club :)]

Any Muslim country , according to them (their philosophers) chess is a Haram and one should not play it...

this was very funny explain, because of that last women world championship organazed in saudi arabia? also there are too many muslim grandmasters and also if we look from percent(%) turkey has more grandmasters than india have

i know its year old news but thats all i remember... and hey we're not bad at chess, actually everyone likes playing chess here but you don't get paid much for playing anything other than cricket

Valleta-Chan
orangehonda wrote:

How about San Marino?  It's a small nation of only 28,000 people -- I doubt you'd even find a chess club

It is the most unknown country in europe, heh... Source sporcle games

behdadbahman

I think it has to be Vatican because it's the smallest country and its population is 800 I don't think they even have an IM or NM

marinusholkema

https://www.chess.com/members/search?country=147&coaches=0&streamers=0&titledMembers=0&sortBy=best-match

2 IM's

 

Eyes1289

Wow!!!???? I don't think anyone would find out which country has that title cause there's no prize for it🤕🤕🤕🤕🤕🤕

magipi

This is a joke, right? Just because someone sports the Vatican flag on chess.com that does not mean anything.

TTY_500
wingtzun wrote:

Japan has one IM, the worst chess playing nation is Bahamas (highest rated player is Fide 1911).

Palau, 1870

lemaudit1

Finally, an answer to the question posed by this dinosaur thread...