You just need a photographic memory

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irmd

Does anyone else feel this way?

OK, The midgame is fine. Its interesting , usually fast action, fire power: its also related to your reaction time in a live game. Its practically like an arcade game.

But when it comes to openings, you have to read some book or learn from a video. You have to memorize all the different openings and variations. And they are all so BORING. Its like doing homework ! or office work - the preparation is everything. There are no reflexes involved just a good memory. So whats the big deal. If I read one or two opening books for 7 hours and my friend reads for only 1 hour, I am probably going to beat him badly in the opening. So what? I just invested more time in it. I have no personal ability that allowed me to win in the opening. Just my thought.

TheGreatOogieBoogie

You overestimate the importance of opening theory.  Your goal should be to have a playable middlegame, and you could infer good moves based off general principles and asking yourself what can your opponent do.  Learn to think outside the box.

irmd

Very good advice and encouraging for someone who wants to play the game without spending time reading.  I did seea video once by an IM with a 2700 rating,  explaining the merits of a minor variation.  And it dawned on me that maybe chess, at least that level or in openings could be mostly studying variations and preparation.  But I agree that applying principles and ahead is a skill that can complete with extensive preparation. 

Scottrf
irmd wrote:

I did seea video once by an IM with a 2700 rating,

Doubt it.

irmd

sorry that was an FM not an IM 

http://www.chess.com/video/player/openings-for-beginners-the-english-opening  

Valeri Lilov  FM   2900 rating.

AndyClifton

Is very small, I cannot read!  I am so sorry.

WanderingPuppet

if you take chess as a product of simply memorizing moves, you will not understand and thus play chess effectually.  these titled players understand the development of theory at top level how it started to the pt. to where it currently exists, only in such a way you can appreciate why theory exists the way it does and understand how u may respond when your opponent deviates, which they will eventually.

let's take a brief look at a very nuanced line in the ruy lopez for instance:


i think if you just try to memorize these long sequences, it will not help your chess so much --- but if you understand the little differences and the theoretical development, then you have truly increased your chess mastery.

irmd

For Andy Clifton:  Larger Font just for you.

sorry that was an FM not an IM http://www.chess.com/video/player/openings-for-beginners-the-english-opening    By :   Valeri Lilov  FM   2900 rating.

waffllemaster

"Winning" the opening as you put it will give you an edge in the middlegame.  For this to translate to a win you have to nurse it across a middlegame and endgame (assuming no big blunders by your opponent).

So all that memorization and studying you describe is worthless unless you can avoid the big blunders (tactics) and play very well in the middelgame and endgame.  Truly worthless because you can destroy that advantage at any time, and very easily in 1 move.

So if you learn tactics, endgames and middlegames well and play the opening with principals alone you'll crush any idiot who's spent 7 hours a day with an opening book but neglected everything else.

However a "photographic memory" would be useful for patterns and ideas seen from other quality games... not so much to a beginner but as you know more of the fundamentals and start needing ideas this can begin to become useful.

irmd
waffllemaster wrote:

"Winning" the opening as you put it will give you an edge in the middlegame.  For this to translate to a win you have to nurse it across a middlegame and endgame (assuming no big blunders by your opponent).

So all that memorization and studying you describe is worthless unless you can avoid the big blunders (tactics) and play very well in the middelgame and endgame.  Truly worthless because you can destroy that advantage at any time, and very easily in 1 move.

So if you learn tactics, endgames and middlegames well and play the opening with principals alone you'll crush any idiot who's spent 7 hours a day with an opening book but neglected everything else.

However a "photographic memory" would be useful for patterns and ideas seen from other quality games... not so much to a beginner but as you know more of the fundamentals and start needing ideas this can begin to become useful.


Thats encouraging , Wafflemaster

Vease

There have been really great players who didn't know much about opening theory, Reshevsky being the prime example, even today Carlsen admits he doesn't like studying openings and is probably the least booked up of the top ten - yet he's at 2861!

The key is not to try and learn everything about every opening, thats just impossible for a start. The hardest thing about studying openings is actually deciding which ones you want to play, or possibly which variation of complex openings like the Sicilian, Ruy Lopez, Kings Indian you like. Once you have your basic 'repertoire' you will find yourself getting used to the recurring positional and tactical themes and you can beat other players practically out of the opening just by knowing where the minor pieces are best placed and what pawn breaks are thematic.

I agree that just looking at reams of variations IS really boring, its much better to learn an opening by actually playing it, who knows you might even create your own TN (Theoretical Novelty) Smile

Genghis_McCann

I notice you have a diamond membership which is great because you have full access to the great videos by the people on chess.com who REALLY know what they're doing. Try to decide on an opening you like or have had success with, and a defence for d4 and e4 you'd like to learn for black. Then search the videos and simply listen.

After the first few moves that establish which opening you are in, there are always many branches, and only the GMs and high powered players remember them into the tenth and twentieth move. You and I won't be playing them however, and for us it's more important to learn what a particular opening is trying to achieve, and what are the strong and weak squares for you and your opponent, ie where on the board you should be attacking and where you will need to defend.

Good luck

JoshG354
irmd wrote:

For Andy Clifton:  Larger Font just for you.

sorry that was an FM not an IM http://www.chess.com/video/player/openings-for-beginners-the-english-opening    By :   Valeri Lilov  FM   2900 rating.

We all assumed you meant the Fide rating....

Ubik42
Vease wrote:

There have been really great players who didn't know much about opening theory, Reshevsky being the prime example, even today Carlsen admits he doesn't like studying openings and is probably the least booked up of the top ten - yet he's at 2861!

The key is not to try and learn everything about every opening, thats just impossible for a start. The hardest thing about studying openings is actually deciding which ones you want to play, or possibly which variation of complex openings like the Sicilian, Ruy Lopez, Kings Indian you like. Once you have your basic 'repertoire' you will find yourself getting used to the recurring positional and tactical themes and you can beat other players practically out of the opening just by knowing where the minor pieces are best placed and what pawn breaks are thematic.

I agree that just looking at reams of variations IS really boring, its much better to learn an opening by actually playing it, who knows you might even create your own TN (Theoretical Novelty)

I had this same view for m any years, but lately I have been rethinking it.

Look at Carlsen, yes perhaps the least booked up of the top 10, but this does not take away from the fact that he has huge amounts of lines memorized, far far more than I ever will. What does it mean when he says he doesnt study openings that much? Does he mean he only studies openings 4-5 hours every day, instead of 5-6?

Top players know more than just principles, they memorize lines. Lots of lines (of course it comes easier to them). Amateurs are told not to do it. I don't know. I think this advice can be taken too literally. The openings have always been my weakest area (In OTB I always played offbeat lines to get out of book and hoped I could reach a middlegame without a disaster), this time out I am going to change that, drop the "don't memorize" advice, and the stunt openings, and memorize some good solid lines, and turn my weakness into a strength. I think I will do better. 

blake78613

It is very hard to memorize a line, if the line is random nonsense to you.  One reason a master can memorize more lines is that most of the moves in the lines seem natural to him, and it is just a few critical moves and positions that he has to concentrate on memorizing.  If there is a tactical solution to a problem, he can get by with just remembering the position has a tactical solution and what the theme of the tactic is.  With that information he can find the solution over the board.

jesterville

Well of course a "photo memory" will help, but it is not sufficient. Your "photo memory" will only help you up to where "the book closes"...so it will not be of much use in the middle and end game. 

I was doing some reading on Magnus, and came across the storey of how at about age 10 he could recite the names of every country in the world, their capitals, population, language, currency and describe their national flag...how much more "photo memory" do you need? And for the record their are about 200 countries in the World.

Vease

The only lines you need to memorise are traps in the particular openings that you play, mostly to avoid them but you might also catch someone as well. Memorisation is crucial for professional players so that they don't spend too much time working their way through the first fifteen moves and can concentrate on the important middlegame. For the rest of us its more important to understand the logic of whats going on in an opening, which squares need to be covered, what the thematic pawn breaks are, what the best files for the rooks are etc,etc.

The level of knowledge of GM's is frankly like having a PHD in chess. I remember watching a live broadcast from a tournament where Peter Svidler was commentating with Yasser Seirawan and Yasser asked him what was going on in a position after 7 or 8 moves. Svidler said 'Yas, I don't play this opening but I think you're supposed to do this' and proceeded to reel off a dozen moves with 4 or 5 sidelines in about three minutes which were pretty much up to date theory - ON A LINE HE DOESN'T EVEN PLAY IN PRACTICE..Impressive and also quite disheartening at the same time!

Noreaster
Petrosianic wrote:

if you take chess as a product of simply memorizing moves, you will not understand and thus play chess effectually.  these titled players understand the development of theory at top level how it started to the pt. to where it currently exists, only in such a way you can appreciate why theory exists the way it does and understand how u may respond when your opponent deviates, which they will eventually.

let's take a brief look at a very nuanced line in the ruy lopez for instance:

 


i think if you just try to memorize these long sequences, it will not help your chess so much --- but if you understand the little differences and the theoretical development, then you have truly increased your chess mastery.


Ouch!

VLaurenT

The stronger you are, the more you need to know exact theory, because your opponents will be unforgiving.

The recommendation to beginners is not to shun opening theory : it's to understand that not knowing theory doesn't really change the result of their games. When it does, they are no longer beginners.

  • Have an expert play against a 1200 with ECO - it won't make any difference for the 1200
  • Have two 1200's play with ECO : it won't make any difference to the result of the game
  • Have two 2200s players play, one with a database, the second without, it may make a difference
irmd

Maybe success in  chess is like success in life. Its in the eye of the person themselves. For one person it may be a major success and accomplishment to go from 1200 to 1400, for  another from 1800 to 2100.