50 move draw rule

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soothsayer8

Is the rule that after 50 moves without a capture or pawn move, the game automatically ends in a draw upheld in chess.com online games? I'm currently hosting a tournament in which the last caputure (and subsequently pawn move) took place on move 49, one player has night and bishop and is trying to mate the opponents lone king, but isn't having any luck. Now they are at move 119, 10 moves past the point the draw should have been reached. What can be done about this? Let them play it out until mate or they agree to draw it?

omnipaul

The thing about this rule is that it is not automatic; this is a common misconception about it and the repetition draw.  If either player wants the draw, they must claim it by pressing the appropriate button.

Unfortunately, you may need to let them play it out.  Informing them about this option and how to do it could be misconstrued as "external assistance," especially since a mate is theoretically forceable.

omnipaul

ReasonableDoubt, watching such videos is explicitly allowed, as they are a static resource that deals with a general situation.  What is not allowed is plugging your specific position into an engine or tablebase (an exhaustive database that gives the best move for specific endgame positions).

There's a difference between using instructional materials to learn the technique (where you still have to think of how to use the technique to guide yourself to the key positions) and using something that explicitly tells you the move to make for your specific position.

soothsayer8

yeah, I'm not sure why the player without any pieces wouldn't claim the draw, but I'm sure the game will resolve itself one way or another. Thanks.

DimebagDerek

Hmmm, so on a game I just played, no pawn moves were made after move 41 and the game ended on move 125 with just 1 second left and my opponent flagged.  Had I (or he for that matter) hit offer draw, it would have automatically claimed draw???

TadDude
DimebagDerek wrote:

Hmmm, so on a game I just played, no pawn moves were made after move 41 and the game ended on move 125 with just 1 second left and my opponent flagged.  Had I (or he for that matter) hit offer draw, it would have automatically claimed draw???


http://www.chess.com/learn-how-to-play-chess.html#draws

"Fifty consecutive moves have been played where neither player has moved a pawn or captured a piece."

whirlwind2011

@omnipaul: Regarding post #3, I may be wrong, but a TD informing the participants of the need to claim the draw might not be construed as external assistance, since the necessity to claim draws by the 50-move rule is openly divulged in the site's help menus.

DimebagDerek

There were no captures either.  And I believe the 3 move repetition rule doesn't have to be back to back, only the same position has been achieved 3 times?  Anyhow there was plenty of that as well.  I kept thinking the draw would just happen....but apparently I have to offer a draw after either condition is achieved and then it will automatically claim it?

soothsayer8

Update: The game in questions has officially been drawn by the 50 move rule, 100 moves after any capture or pawn move. Makes me wanna study up on how to mate with knight and bishop ;)

DimebagDerek

Speaking of, I had a blitz game the other day and it was knight bishop and pawn vs rook and pawn....and he had to sac his rook for my pawn and I did not have enough time to finish him.  Only time in all my games I have even had the opportunity to attempt knight and bishop mate.

soothsayer8

That's why I always like to play games with at least a little bonus time.

Sorg67

I am in a probable draw game at the moment.  I have offered a draw and it was declined.  We have gone 35 moves since the last pawn was taken.  No pieces have been taken since.  I am going to be interested to see if the "offer draw" button changes to "claim draw".  I have seen the "claim draw" button for 3X repitition, but I have not seen it for 50 moves.  Almost had one a while back when I got mated by a bishop and a knight on move 48 after the 50 move count began.  I did not think he was going to get me, but he did. 

If my current games makes it to the 50th move, I will post a description of how it works.

chessitus

[http://www.chess.com/forum/view/community/chesscom-posting-rules Moderator]

knightspawn5

The fifty-move rule in chess states that a player can claim a draw if no capture has been made and no pawn has been moved in the last fifty consecutive moves (fifty moves by each side). The intended purpose of this rule is to prevent a player with no chance of winning from obstinately playing on indefinitely (Hooper & Whyld 1992:134), or seeking to win purely by tiring the opponent out. All of the basic checkmates can be accomplished in well under fifty moves.

In the 20th century it was discovered that certain endgame positions are winnable but require more than 50 moves (without a capture or a pawn move).

ThrillerFan

I am seeing posts about assistance and rules. The director CAN NOT draw attention to the situation. It is the player's responsibility to be familiar with the rule and must make the claim himself. If he proceeds to ask the director about such rules, the director can state the rule to the player. He can not say whether the claim would be valid in that player's particular game. When he or she actually makes the claim, director makes the ruling.

restless_rook

I just had a game where both trifold repetition and the 50 move rule applied, and still lost on time because my stubborn opponent wouldn't acccept a draw in a dead drawn rook vs. rook (no pawns) endgame. Besides exposing the fact that this particular player is scum, can this not be perhaps a lesson that these rules need to be automatically invoked after a certain point in the interests of fair play?

Sorg67

I have drawn games using both the trifold repitition and 50 move rule on chess.com.  You have to claim it, but the button to offer draw will change to claim draw.

computo200

why would you revive this. lol

Sorg67
cardinal46 wrote:

Besides, if you have a winning position I dont see why anybody would claim a draw!

You wouldn't.  Who said anything about claiming a draw from a won position.  The complaint was failing to accept a draw in a hopelessly drawn position.  I think the answer was to educate regarding how to claim a draw in such a situation on chess.com under the three times rep or 50 move rule when you opponent will not accept a draw offer.

handsomeprints
knightspawn5 wrote:

In the 20th century it was discovered that certain endgame positions are winnable but require more than 50 moves (without a capture or a pawn move).

I'd be interested in seeing such positions if someone has seen one of them somewhere.