Can a banned player return by making new accounts?

The_economist9

Anyone can confirm this?

llama

Yes and no. It depends on how badly they want you to stay gone and it depends on how much you know about computers.

The_economist9
llama03 wrote:

Yes and no. It depends on how badly they want you to stay gone and it depends on how much you know about computers.

Can you please elaborate?

llama

So, chess.com is just a computer right? A server is just a computer. And when we go to the address www.chess.com you can think of it like going to a house. So here's a question. Can you secure a house so well that no thief can enter? Well yes and no. What happens is it becomes a battle of money, time, skill, and effort vs the opponent's money, time, skill, and effort.

So if you get banned for something minor, you can probably come back, but if you cause big issues, then it will be a lot harder. There have been members who, for example, post some boarderline illegal things and harass members and they keep coming back... but if you annoy the site enough, they have a lot of money and full time employees that will try to keep you away.

Talking about specifics only helps people do bad things, and I don't know much more than you can find out easily via google anyway.

The_economist9
llama03 wrote:

So, chess.com is just a computer right? A server is just a computer. And when we go to the address www.chess.com you can think of it like going to a house. So here's a question. Can you secure a house so well that no thief can enter? Well yes and no. What happens is it becomes a battle of money, time, skill, and effort vs the opponent's money, time, skill, and effort.

So if you get banned for something minor, you can probably come back, but if you cause big issues, then it will be a lot harder. There have been members who, for example, post some boarderline illegal things and harass members and they keep coming back... but if you annoy the site enough, they have a lot of money and full time employees that will try to keep you away.

Talking about specifics only helps people do bad things, and I don't know much more than you can find out easily via google anyway.

Thanks for the explanation, I don't know if this is true, but they can ban your IP address. I believe the ban is only a minor fix, players can make new accounts over and over under different gmails and return indefinitely. 

david

Chess.com makes it really easy for anyone to become a basic member: unfortunately, that also makes it easier for banned people to create new accounts. There are some measures we can take, but equally there are some things we just can't prevent. As soon as we identify the account as belonging to a banned person, we close that account straight away. We appreciate the community's help in identifying any such accounts.

David, moderator

The_economist9
david wrote:

Chess.com makes it really easy for anyone to become a basic member: unfortunately, that also makes it easier for banned people to create new accounts. There are some measures we can take, but equally there are some things we just can't prevent. As soon as we identify the account as belonging to a banned person, we close that account straight away. We appreciate the community's help in identifying any such accounts.

David, moderator

Thanks David,

What if the banned member doesn't chat to anyone and just shows up to play chess? Will chess.com still be able to identify that player?

llama

Maybe David will answer, maybe not, but I can't help but respond by saying answering those sorts of questions only help bad people do bad things.

Maybe that question is minor enough that they'll answer... but yeah, that's my reaction.

The_economist9
llama03 wrote:

Maybe David will answer, maybe not, but I can't help but respond by saying answering those sorts of questions only help bad people do bad things.

Maybe that question is minor enough that they'll answer... but yeah, that's my reaction.

Yes that is true, but majority of chess.com players aren't bad. Also I heard many stories of banned players returning. I just can't prove it. 

david
The_economist9 wrote:

What if the banned member doesn't chat to anyone and just shows up to play chess? Will chess.com still be able to identify that player?

Well, they wouldn't be doing anything that led to their banning in the first place, so the fact that it would be harder to identify them doesn't really make a difference. Unfortunately, the more common outcome is that these people can't or won't change their behaviour and usually start doing and saying the same sort of things that led to their banning in the first place, and get their latest accounts closed for those things even if we don't link the later account to their previous ones.

The_economist9
david wrote:
The_economist9 wrote:

What if the banned member doesn't chat to anyone and just shows up to play chess? Will chess.com still be able to identify that player?

Well, they wouldn't be doing anything that led to their banning in the first place, so the fact that it would be harder to identify them doesn't really make a difference. Unfortunately, the more common outcome is that these people can't or won't change their behaviour and usually start doing and saying the same sort of things that led to their banning in the first place, and get their latest accounts closed for those things even if we don't link the later account to their previous ones.

Since I don't want to ask for too much sensitive information. Does chess.com/moderators forgive players? If they come back, but don't do that again. 

david
The_economist9 wrote:

Does chess.com/moderators forgive players? If they come back, but don't do that again. 

Moderators don't have the authority to make that sort of decision, but Chess.com does allow people a 2nd chance if they own their behaviour, apologise, and promise not to do it again. An account closed for Fair Play violations is never re-opened, but they may be allowed a new account, and an account closed for Abuse may be re-opened. People only get 1 second chance, though, and if they blow that one, they don't get any more. They also don't get to lie about their re-instatement in the public forums and pretend that Chess.com made a mistake.

chesschesskid

do u ip ban them if they come back a third time

david
chesschesskid wrote:

do u ip ban them if they come back a third time

Sorry - we're not about to discuss the tools and methods we use to identify and try to keep people off our site.

chesschesskid
david wrote:
chesschesskid wrote:

do u ip ban them if they come back a third time

Sorry - we're not about to discuss the tools and methods we use to identify and try to keep people off our site.

ok makes sense

The_economist9
david wrote:
chesschesskid wrote:

do u ip ban them if they come back a third time

Sorry - we're not about to discuss the tools and methods we use to identify and try to keep people off our site.

I think all sites know our IP address therefore I think that can be banned. But just like everything else there are ways around it. Personally I don't think there is actually a way to permanently remove someone if they want to stay. 

llama

Well... it depends on how badly they want you gone, like I said.

Because in the end, lets say you're doing something illegal, your ISP has your real name, address, and bank info, and even if the police aren't involved, if the ISP determines you're doing some bad stuff they can refuse you service in other words no more internet at all.

Sure you can go to lengths to hide your IP, but like my analogy with the house, there are a lot of different levels to this stuff. Ultimately there's no such thing as perfect anonymity, just like there's no such thing as making your website impenetrable. A house, by definition, lets people in and out, and a person, by definition, has a real identity when they enter.

djcaf

IP bans are not reliable as many users have IP's that change often (mine does if I restart my router or it restarts itself). Also many users may share the same IP so innocent people could get blocked. And yes there is the option to mask IP addresses using proxy servers and the like. The subject of IP bans has been discussed on occasion elsewhere in the forums I believe.

Essentially the attacker (in this case the banned user) has an easier job than the defender (chess.com in this case). The defender must plug all holes and the attacker only needs to find one. But as David says they will likely repeat the same mistakes again and get banned again. In some cases it is probably a never ending cycle of ban-new account-ban-new account-etc...

The_economist9
djcaf wrote:

IP bans are not reliable as many users have IP's that change often (mine does if I restart my router or it restarts itself). Also many users may share the same IP so innocent people could get blocked. And yes there is the option to mask IP addresses using proxy servers and the like. The subject of IP bans has been discussed on occasion elsewhere in the forums I believe.

Essentially the attacker (in this case the banned user) has an easier job than the defender (chess.com in this case). The defender must plug all holes and the attacker only needs to find one. But as David says they will likely repeat the same mistakes again and get banned again. In some cases it is probably a never ending cycle of ban-new account-ban-new account-etc...

Yeah I gotta agree with that one. There is no real way chess.com can stop someone if they keep wanting to come back. 

MAAKASU

How about if suhm1 buys a new computer and creates a new password such as •••••••••• and uses that to cre8 a new account and spam or cheat?