I just had a game incorrectly end in a draw

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Avatar of JonathanShapira

Black to run out the clock and draw 

Avatar of ooooeeeeooeeoe

yes because u cant checkmate with one knight so if u would have time then what would u do nothing so its a rule 

Avatar of jetoba
ooooeeeeooeeoe wrote:

yes because u cant checkmate with one knight so if u would have time then what would u do nothing so its a rule 

In the US Chess rule (14E) about Insufficient material to win on time, 14E2 says: only king and bishop or king and knight,  and does not have a forced win.

 

So in US Chess rules a player about to suffer a forced smothered mate against a K+N cannot simply let the clock run out.  Since the K+N has a forced win it is still 1-0 instead  of 1/2-1/2.  Chess.com would simply have to check to see if forced mate (by the K+N player against the opponent) was the calculation.

Avatar of lfPatriotGames
JonathanShapira wrote:

Black to run out the clock and draw 

That's what I would do. Assuming it's only 10 or 20 seconds. Not 10 or 20 minutes. Both sides know the rules going in. So in this case it should be a draw. Both sides got themselves in an awful position. 

Avatar of Lagomorph
JonathanShapira wrote:

Black to run out the clock and draw 

Under both FIDE and USCF rules this would be a win for white.

But understand this....this site although it is closer to USCF rules than FIDE rules, does not have an arbiter to look at the final position. It uses a simple piece count. The piece count says K+N cannot win so its a draw.

Unfair ? Probably. But as this kind of position will almost never crop up in your games so what !

Maybe one day they will re write the code differently. Until then don't lose sleep over an edge situation.

Avatar of jetoba
Lagomorph wrote:
JonathanShapira wrote:

Black to run out the clock and draw 

Under both FIDE and USCF rules this would be a win for white.

But understand this....this site although it is closer to USCF rules than FIDE rules, does not have an arbiter to look at the final position. It uses a simple piece count. The piece count says K+N cannot win so its a draw.

Unfair ? Probably. But as this kind of position will almost never crop up in your games so what !

Maybe one day they will re write the code differently. Until then don't lose sleep over an edge situation.

Very valid advice since virtually all smothered mates involve a piece sacrifice just before the knight mate.  Since the position prior to the piece sacrifice would almost certainly have enough material to get a win if the opponent flagged, the K+N position wouldn't arise until after the capture and the K+N player's clock is running.

Another extremely unlikely edge position would be white Ka1, Rb1, Ra2, Qc4, Black Qh2, Ka3 where black plays Qxa2+ and white runs out of time.  White's only legal move is Qxa2#.  Under FIDE rules this is a draw.  Per US Chess rule 14D4 (no legal move sequence by the opponent leading to checkmate and no legal moves left for the flagged player) this is also a draw.    With only the unflagged player's material looked at this would be a win by black.  The main reason for bringing this up is to show that the rule variation (from US Chess rules) works both ways and turns some wins into draws and other draws into wins, but does both under situations so incredibly unlikely that it is not worth losing any sleep over.

 

A similar position would have the black king shifted to a7, the black queen shifted to c4 and the white queen shifted to c6 with Qxa2+ making Kxa2 stalemate being the only legal move.  It seems probable but I don't know if Qxa2+ would immediately trigger the Chess.com rule "The insufficient mating material rule says that the game is immediately declared a draw if there is no way to end the game in checkmate. " and do that triggering before white had a chance to run out of time. (prior to that Qa4 would have blocked the check so Ra2+ would not have triggered it).