It refers to checkmateing someone who has no material.
Insufficient material program is STUPID!
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I dont see what needs to be fixed. If you want to restart a game, you can do that.
As far as why sometimes you win and sometimes you lose and sometimes you draw when time runs out, it depends on which side has any pieces left and which side runs out of time. You'll get the hang of it eventually.
It doesn’t make sense though. I had a king left, he had two queens and a pawn. When I’m in similar or identical situations, the game ALWAYS ends in draw due to insufficient material even if I checkmate them, it doesn’t make sense to me. If there are any resources regarding the way that the system works, I would be happy to read them! Btw thank you for that bit of insight!
Also, in endgames where mate is theoretically forcable, such as 2 bishops vs knight, and it's a draw. Sometimes, even if you have mate in 1 with a king and bishop is some position, it'll give draw!
Insuffecient material comes in when you have just a king or just a King + bishop or just a king + knight. You can't mate some with that material and hence insufficient material.
If you have a king and a bihsop or knight and your opponent just has a king, it is an automatic draw. Its not a chess.com rule, its a chess rule in general. Chess.com would have to have it, for it is the rule of chess.
Not having insufficient material draw rule is like chess.com deciding that people cannot castle on this site.
It would just be a broken game.
NelsonMoore wrote:
I see a game where you had king and two queens but ran out of time so it was given a draw.
I also saw one where your opponent had king and 3 pawns and you just a king and your opponent ran out of time and that game was also given as a draw.
So I guess it swings both ways.
The only thing that is "stupid" in my opinion is 3+0 time control. Increments are there for a reason.
I use used to play on 5 and 10, but I want to work my way up to bullet. I guess I just want to understand how the draw system works so that I can report the bug, if there is one, to chess.com
JayeshSinhaChess wrote:
Insuffecient material comes in when you have just a king or just a King + bishop or just a king + knight. You can't mate some with that material and hence insufficient material.
If you have a king and a bihsop or knight and your opponent just has a king, it is an automatic draw. Its not a chess.com rule, its a chess rule in general. Chess.com would have to have it, for it is the rule of chess.
Not having insufficient material draw rule is like chess.com deciding that people cannot castle on this site.
It would just be a broken game.
Thank you for clarifying. This was very helpful!
JayeshSinhaChess wrote:
Insuffecient material comes in when you have just a king or just a King + bishop or just a king + knight. You can't mate some with that material and hence insufficient material.
If you have a king and a bihsop or knight and your opponent just has a king, it is an automatic draw. Its not a chess.com rule, its a chess rule in general. Chess.com would have to have it, for it is the rule of chess.
Not having insufficient material draw rule is like chess.com deciding that people cannot castle on this site.
It would just be a broken game.
Yes, but the problem is in positions like this:
If black runs out of time, it gives a draw, even when mate is still possible
EndgameStudier wrote:
JayeshSinhaChess wrote:
Insuffecient material comes in when you have just a king or just a King + bishop or just a king + knight. You can't mate some with that material and hence insufficient material.
If you have a king and a bihsop or knight and your opponent just has a king, it is an automatic draw. Its not a chess.com rule, its a chess rule in general. Chess.com would have to have it, for it is the rule of chess.
Not having insufficient material draw rule is like chess.com deciding that people cannot castle on this site.
It would just be a broken game.
Yes, but the problem is in positions like this:
If black runs out of time, it gives a draw, even when mate is still possible
So would you consider this a dilemma or a bug?
No, just not all positions can be taken into account with one inclusive algorithm. In fact check out this position:
White wins no matter what, but if black lets his time run out, it might give a draw, not sure.
EndgameStudier wrote:
No, just not all positions can be taken into account with one inclusive algorithm. In fact check out this position:
White wins no matter what, but if black lets his time run out, it might give a draw, not sure.
Do you want to recreate this in an unrated game to see what would happen?
Sure.
I'll be black
We'll need about 5 min +1 sec inc to construct the position, Don't worry, I won't mate you randomly for fun
Challenge me in live chess.
I had a draw called once when I ran out of time but had more material. Sent a message to opponent saying he should have won because I my clock ran out. If you run out of time you should lose......PERIOD !!! Also, situation mentioned by EndgameStudier makes no sense as well. If there is a possibility of a win then there should be no draw called. One pawn & a king can win against a king. I NEVER SAW THESE RULES IN THE BOOKS I read on chess or the Book of Hoyle on the rules of all card & board games when I was a child well over a half of a century ago! Who changed the rules is & when is what I would like to know. Not why.
Was referencing Post # 6.
MarkProb wrote:
I had a draw called once when I ran out of time but had more material. Sent a message to opponent saying he should have won because I my clock ran out. If you run out of time you should lose......PERIOD !!! Also, situation mentioned by EndgameStudier makes no sense as well. If there is a possibility of a win then there should be no draw called. One pawn & a king can win against a king. I NEVER SAW THESE RULES IN THE BOOKS I read on chess or the Book of Hoyle on the rules of all card & board games when I was a child well over a half of a century ago! Who changed the rules is what I would like to know.
If I have a queen and king, and my opponent has a king, and I run out of time, why should I lose. My opponent cannot mate me no matter what? I already earned a draw by wiping out all of his pieces. I have a guaranteed draw. If I can't mate him, then I shouldn't win, but at least a draw if my opponent has ZERO chance of winning, 0.
HSCCNickS wrote:
EndgameStudier wrote:
No, just not all positions can be taken into account with one inclusive algorithm. In fact check out this position:
White wins no matter what, but if black lets his time run out, it might give a draw, not sure.
Do you want to recreate this in an unrated game to see what would happen?
You need to change your rating parameter to play me for some reason
I just played a Game where ALL I had was a king, then he checkmates me with two queens! But when I do it it draws due to insufficient material!! It’s restarted and chess.com should fix it!