1) White might seem like in a decent/safe position castled away but he is in real danger here. I believe black has the better position.
I would rather be the black side if it is black's turn to move.
A test: evaluate, analyze, & win
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Unless I'm missing something, ...Rxf2 leads to Qxa8+ and it's game over for black. I'm thinking ...Bxf2+ Kh1 ...Rd8 Qd5 ...Qc2
Kepler wrote:
... Rxf2 Qxa8+ Rf8+ and white loses his queen. I prefer black's position even more after that! Maybe Rxf2 is the best move just on the basis that white might be daft enough to play Qxa8.
The point of the post is to teach; especially those that need to get better...to learn to recognize/feel the danger. To learn to evaluate the position and to learn to analyze (without having to move the pieces)...This puzzle/post was meant for those that need to learn (like me & I'm sure a lot of other people).
To Slack: You're doing fine with your analysis, except you are forgetting something. After (black) Rxd2 and then (white) Qxa8+, think about what black's move can be after Qxa8+ (and the resulting effect of that move)...I think this is where most people get in trouble during game-play.
Black checkmate 2 moves, simple answer is to be black
Looks to me like the best line is rxf2. Not much white can do to stave off defeat, although if black misplays, white can get back into the game . . .
tonydal wrote:
Hammerschlag, I think you're overthinking this one a bit. As far as evaluating the position, Black's a rook up...so there doesn't really need to be any further evaluation. The only question is: is there an immediate win, or does Black have to wait a few more moves by playing 1... Rd8? Since 1... Rxf2 seems to work, the answer is: there's an immediate win. The kind of evaluation/analyzing you're advocating is really only germane to a position where there are no clearcut tactics available.
Ok, evaluating is more that just counting pieces right? Even if you are up a piece you still need to evaluate the position...or am I wrong?
Doesn't finding an "immediate" win or having to figure out if you have to "wait" for a move evaluating? Maybe I have my definition of evaluate (in chess term) wrong, I don't know. Opening can mean the first move or a series of moves, so maybe I am not thinking about it right.
I think higher rated players just think that this kind of study is not even necessary (because they see it) although I know I need someone to show me this stuff as I am not that good. For higher rated players it's easy, but for those that are not, it's hard. Look at Slack's comment. This post wasn't meant to "stump/challenge" the people that have "master" as titles. So I ask you for one second think of the other people on this site that's not of you caliber.
Kepler wrote:
Hammerschlag wrote:
Kepler wrote:
... Rxf2 Qxa8+ Rf8+ and white loses his queen. I prefer black's position even more after that! Maybe Rxf2 is the best move just on the basis that white might be daft enough to play Qxa8.
The point of the post is to teach; especially those that need to get better...to learn to recognize/feel the danger. To learn to evaluate the position and to learn to analyze (without having to move the pieces)...This puzzle/post was meant for those that need to learn (like me & I'm sure a lot of other people).
I do apologise. I didn't realise I had nothing more to learn. I won't commit the error of replying to one of your posts again.
I feel there's always something to learn. Not just in chess but in everything and everyone. All you're doing is demeaning anyone that might not get it the first time; you pretend that they should and if they don't they are not worthy or something.
To Igambeta: I don't know if there's a mate in two for black, but black is better in this position. You can maybe list the moves for mate in two?
To Daxelson: You are right with the white move Qxa8...it's bad for white.
No one mentioned 1 ... Bxf2+, then 2. Rxf2...Qxf2+, 3. Kh1...Qf1 mate.
slack wrote:
Unless I'm missing something, ...Rxf2 leads to Qxa8+ and it's game over for black. I'm thinking ...Bxf2+ Kh1 ...Rd8 Qd5 ...Qc2
incorrect , as then the rook on f2 will simply move down to block the queen and at the same time will give a discovered check winning a pawn and a queen for a rook
tonydal wrote:
Again, I think your approach is a bit sententious. In such a position, no, evaluation isn't much more than counting pieces; Black's a rook up, so he's gonna win, sooner or later. The only way he could lose would be from a tactical oversight or some tactical resource for White in this position; and--this is the key--such resources have nothing to do with abstract evaluations of a position. Spotting them is just a matter of practice and study and more practice...and is something that you do eventually pick up.
I think plenty of other players who are not of "my caliber." Which is why I'm suggesting that if you (or they) really want to analyze such a position, trying to sound like you're writing some doctoral thesis about it is not the way to go.
First, let me apologize if I sounded like I was writing a doctoral thesis. I did not know I sounded like it; maybe I did but that was not the idea.
I am going to point this out and I am not trying to be a jerk about it, but the score is actually 26 to 23. I mean that white is actually just a minor piece down, not a whole Rook. I am not trying to say that white is better here.
"Spotting them is just a matter of practice and study and more practice..."
Isn't this study? can't this be considered practice too? (again, I am not trying to be a jerk by saying this, I am just asking a question). It's just the way I look at things, everything has a value to it; something can be learned from everything.
My point with saying about the caliber thing is that you might have learned this already, but not everyone has. I think some of the reply to the post about wrong assumption of the diagram/puzzle or whatever you want to call it proves it.
I see this position (see diagram) and I see plenty of players, even good ones, missing it. White becoming overconfident in his/her position thinking they might be better and not seeing that the Rook on a8 is not actually free (or loose). I also see black getting rattled by seeing his/her Rook is under attack and become defensive which would be a mistake.
Ok, this is my first try at a puzzle that I am making myself (maybe someone has seen one similar to it but I am making the one and have not seen it before --- I am almost sure it has been done before since I think everything in chess has been done before).
I hope you all like it and maybe even learn something from it.
PLEASE READ FIRST: before going ahead and doing the puzzle. Three things I would like for you to do/answer beforehand. If you decide to leave a response to the post, please do the following (#1 & 2).
1) Evaluate the position, and determine which side is better; which side would you rather be playing.
2) Analyze the position and determine which move is best for each side.
3) Please do not give away the answer. If you think you know the answer, you can leave me a “NOTE” on my page and I will get back to you; or you can message me.
Thanks for your cooperation. Enjoy!
Note: The pieces will not move (by design) and will be static. Maybe later one (at a later date) I will update and make the pieces move. I don’t want anyone to just guess the move and try all the possible moves.
It is black to move; last move (white) Qc6.
BTW, let me know what you think...is it a good puzzle or bad?