can you spot the 3 moves

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rjboy

Mar 8, 2009

0

#1

This position it will not happen in real game

maybe black resign before this positon happen...

i put this for brain twisting and for fun only GOOD LUCK!!!

POST YOUR SOLUTION AND I'LL PUT THE SOLUTION LATER

white to move

mate in 3 moves

SilentThunderStorm

Mar 8, 2009

0

#2

Well... if you really want it in 3, I can try, but I do see a good mate in 2. Adding in the extra move might mess things up a bit, though.

First off, the Black bishop is completely worthless, as the only white piece on the board on a black square is the knight, and he will be moving... even IF the bishop decides to find a square from which it can interfere, the option is White's as to wether or not to allow the interference (and, obviously, White will not).

The Black King is frozen, and simply cannot move, even given the absence of the knight... for this reason, it is simply considered a static target. Given that every square around the king is death, any attack on the King results in mate.

The Knight's support of the rooks is completely valueless as well, since they effectively support each other quite nicely.

The White King's position is also going to remain stable, as he provides a very nice anvil on which to crush the opponant king.

This leaves the knight as the only piece on the board that needs to move. Assumably, the bishop will be the king's source of (feeble) resistance.

xx Kb3 or Kf3.... from either of these squares, there are two possible mating moves (c1 or c5) or (e1 or e5)...the choices here are really based on what the bishop does... for example, if the bishop holds the same diagonal, then obviously, e5 is out... but even in the few cases like this, you simply take the alternative... here, e1. In this vein, probably the best square for Black's bishop is d4... right between the twin hammers of White's rooks... yet, again, both c1 and e1 are open. Similarly, if the bishop chooses to roost at b2, then both c5 and e1 remain possible.

After the knight has picked its side (kingside or queenside), the best that the bishop can hope to accomplish is picking the square that the knight will crush his king from.

Mate in 2.

rjboy

Mar 8, 2009

0

#3

SilentThunderStorm wrote:

Well... if you really want it in 3, I can try, but I do see a good mate in 2. Adding in the extra move might mess things up a bit, though.

First off, the Black bishop is completely worthless, as the only white piece on the board on a black square is the knight, and he will be moving... even IF the bishop decides to find a square from which it can interfere, the option is White's as to wether or not to allow the interference (and, obviously, White will not).

The Black King is frozen, and simply cannot move, even given the absence of the knight... for this reason, it is simply considered a static target. Given that every square around the king is death, any attack on the King results in mate.

The Knight's support of the rooks is completely valueless as well, since they effectively support each other quite nicely.

The White King's position is also going to remain stable, as he provides a very nice anvil on which to crush the opponant king.

This leaves the knight as the only piece on the board that needs to move. Assumably, the bishop will be the king's source of (feeble) resistance.

xx Kb3 or Kf3.... from either of these squares, there are two possible mating moves (c1 or c5) or (e1 or e5)...the choices here are really based on what the bishop does... for example, if the bishop holds the same diagonal, then obviously, e5 is out... but even in the few cases like this, you simply take the alternative... here, e1. In this vein, probably the best square for Black's bishop is d4... right between the twin hammers of White's rooks... yet, again, both c1 and e1 are open. Similarly, if the bishop chooses to roost at b2, then both c5 and e1 remain possible.

After the knight has picked its side (kingside or queenside), the best that the bishop can hope to accomplish is picking the square that the knight will crush his king from.

Mate in 2.

wow very nice 2 moves?

i think not posible IN 2 MOVES ......PLS. SHOW YOUR SOLUTION ...

TonightOnly

Mar 8, 2009

0

#4

SilentThunderStorm wrote:

Well... if you really want it in 3, I can try, but I do see a good mate in 2. Adding in the extra move might mess things up a bit, though.

First off, the Black bishop is completely worthless, as the only white piece on the board on a black square is the knight, and he will be moving... even IF the bishop decides to find a square from which it can interfere, the option is White's as to wether or not to allow the interference (and, obviously, White will not).

The Black King is frozen, and simply cannot move, even given the absence of the knight... for this reason, it is simply considered a static target. Given that every square around the king is death, any attack on the King results in mate.

The Knight's support of the rooks is completely valueless as well, since they effectively support each other quite nicely.

The White King's position is also going to remain stable, as he provides a very nice anvil on which to crush the opponant king.

This leaves the knight as the only piece on the board that needs to move. Assumably, the bishop will be the king's source of (feeble) resistance.

xx Kb3 or Kf3.... from either of these squares, there are two possible mating moves (c1 or c5) or (e1 or e5)...the choices here are really based on what the bishop does... for example, if the bishop holds the same diagonal, then obviously, e5 is out... but even in the few cases like this, you simply take the alternative... here, e1. In this vein, probably the best square for Black's bishop is d4... right between the twin hammers of White's rooks... yet, again, both c1 and e1 are open. Similarly, if the bishop chooses to roost at b2, then both c5 and e1 remain possible.

After the knight has picked its side (kingside or queenside), the best that the bishop can hope to accomplish is picking the square that the knight will crush his king from.

Mate in 2.

Very good explanation... with only one hole. I am not going to post it, because I don't want to give away the ending for others. Besides, the problem with this approach is sitting right in front of your face. Read through your post again.

rjboy

Mar 8, 2009

0

#5

TonightOnly wrote:

SilentThunderStorm wrote:

Well... if you really want it in 3, I can try, but I do see a good mate in 2. Adding in the extra move might mess things up a bit, though.

First off, the Black bishop is completely worthless, as the only white piece on the board on a black square is the knight, and he will be moving... even IF the bishop decides to find a square from which it can interfere, the option is White's as to wether or not to allow the interference (and, obviously, White will not).

The Black King is frozen, and simply cannot move, even given the absence of the knight... for this reason, it is simply considered a static target. Given that every square around the king is death, any attack on the King results in mate.

The Knight's support of the rooks is completely valueless as well, since they effectively support each other quite nicely.

The White King's position is also going to remain stable, as he provides a very nice anvil on which to crush the opponant king.

This leaves the knight as the only piece on the board that needs to move. Assumably, the bishop will be the king's source of (feeble) resistance.

xx Kb3 or Kf3.... from either of these squares, there are two possible mating moves (c1 or c5) or (e1 or e5)...the choices here are really based on what the bishop does... for example, if the bishop holds the same diagonal, then obviously, e5 is out... but even in the few cases like this, you simply take the alternative... here, e1. In this vein, probably the best square for Black's bishop is d4... right between the twin hammers of White's rooks... yet, again, both c1 and e1 are open. Similarly, if the bishop chooses to roost at b2, then both c5 and e1 remain possible.

After the knight has picked its side (kingside or queenside), the best that the bishop can hope to accomplish is picking the square that the knight will crush his king from.

Mate in 2.

Very good explanation... with only one hole. I am not going to post it, because I don't want to give away the ending for others, and it is not that difficult to find. There is one move that black has that can stop the knight from delivering mate.

I Know it is very easy but show your solution.....i will make my reply....

i can not understand english very well....thanks for the theory but i need solution.........

chetannaik71

Mar 8, 2009

0

#6

Rh4, black moves his bishop to a safe position, white moves Rh3. Checkmate.

spherenine

Mar 8, 2009

0

#7

Black can move Ke3 and then after Rh3+, move Kf2.

rjboy

Mar 9, 2009

0

#8

roenia wrote:

Rh4, black moves his bishop to a safe position, white moves Rh3. Checkmate.

no mate in 3 moves

WanderingWinder

Mar 9, 2009

0

#9

rjboy has given away the move that makes this puzzle difficult (and I'm beginning to think not a proper puzzle, though I haven't completely checked yet). 1...Bd4 makes the rooks lose sight of each other, and wastes important time.

TonightOnly

Mar 9, 2009

0

#10

Oh!

Wow, this is a very good puzzle. Quite beautiful, with its symmetry and clever piece of zugzwang. Also, the move order is essential, and so there is only one solution.

I really like this one. Who is the composer?

TonightOnly

Mar 9, 2009

0

#11

WanderingWinder wrote:

... I'm beginning to think not a proper puzzle, though I haven't completely checked yet).

This is an authentic, well-made chess problem.

rjboy

Mar 9, 2009

0

#12

hchdez wrote:

I think in this mate

this is my reply not Bb2

SilentThunderStorm

Mar 9, 2009

0

#13

Ah, I see what you mean... so that 1) Nb3 Bd4 2) Nc1 Kxc4 or Kxe4... gotcha.

In the case of Bd4, then, and alternate route would then be Rd4... yet this allows the king to flee out of the trap... in this case, by fleeing to c3.

I have to say, then... I am not sure that a robust 3 turn solution exists.

It would be possible by following along on the thought above to start with 1) Ra4 Bd4 2) Rh4 ... now the bishop HAS to move... zugzwang. Whichever side the bishop chooses to protect will dictate the final position.

This has a few flaws, though... 1) what if the bishop sees its two sided problem, and chooses to hold back a bit on its first move? then when the second rook moves, it can drop into d4. Or again, even if it took d4, it can simply pull back one square on either diagonal and provide imposition on either side... even though it would be a worthless imposition in a real game, it would make the mate take 4 moves.

Again... I am not sure that a robust 3 move position exists.

TonightOnly

Mar 9, 2009

0

#14

rjboy wrote:

TonightOnly wrote:

SilentThunderStorm wrote:

After the knight has picked its side (kingside or queenside), the best that the bishop can hope to accomplish is picking the square that the knight will crush his king from.

Mate in 2.

Very good explanation... with only one hole. I am not going to post it, because I don't want to give away the ending for others, and it is not that difficult to find. There is one move that black has that can stop the knight from delivering mate.

I Know it is very easy but show your solution.....i will make my reply....

i can not understand english very well....thanks for the theory but i need solution.........

Do you think I am saying that the mate in three is hard to find? I am not saying this. In fact, I had a hard time with this problem (though I am sure I have it now) and think you must be good at chess if you find this easy.

This is what I am saying:

The problem with STS's supposed solution is not hard to find.

(Actually, it has been stated a number of times now)

chesscrazy13

Mar 9, 2009

0

#15

I agree 1) NF3 is refuted by Bc3 avoiding mate on both e5 and e1; So the best move is Nc3 threating mate on c1 and c5 and black's bishop can only save the mate at both places by having his bishop on the e3 but black bishop can't come to e3 immediate and so Nc3 wins the game! ...Bb2 is followed by Nc5+# while ....Bd4 is followed by Nc1+#....

So it is indeed 2 moves, is that ok or you want it to be strictly 3 moves? then i have to think all over again...

rjboy

Mar 9, 2009

0

#16

in comment number #5 i write i can not understand english very well..soo i need solution......sorry for wrong quote

to TonightOnly....

TonightOnly

Mar 9, 2009

0

#17

SilentThunderStorm wrote:

Ah, I see what you mean... so that 1) Nb3 Bd4 2) Nc1 Kxc4 or Kxe4... gotcha.

In the case of Bd4, then, and alternate route would then be Rd4... yet this allows the king to flee out of the trap... in this case, by fleeing to c3.

I have to say, then... I am not sure that a robust 3 turn solution exists.

It would be possible by following along on the thought above to start with 1) Ra4 Bd4 2) Rh4 ... now the bishop HAS to move... zugzwang. Whichever side the bishop chooses to protect will dictate the final position.

This has a few flaws, though... 1) what if the bishop sees its two sided problem, and chooses to hold back a bit on its first move? then when the second rook moves, it can drop into d4. Or again, even if it took d4, it can simply pull back one square on either diagonal and provide imposition on either side... even though it would be a worthless imposition in a real game, it would make the mate take 4 moves.

Again... I am not sure that a robust 3 move position exists.

Nice find. That is what I was referring to in post #4.

As far as a three-move solution existing: it does. Again, you are very much on the right track. So, how could you avoid the 'few flaws' you pointed out with 1.Ra4 Bd4 2.Rh4 ?

I have posted a hint in white below. It might give away the puzzle, though, so you might want to work on it a bit more.

You have been taught the endgame dogma that rooks prefer maximum checking distance. But is this always the best way to go?

rjboy

Mar 9, 2009

0

#18

chesscrazy13 wrote:

I agree 1) NF3 is refuted by Bc3 avoiding mate on both e5 and e1; So the best move is Nc3 threating mate on c1 and c5 and black's bishop can only save the mate at both places by having his bishop on the e3 but black bishop can't come to e3 immediate and so Nc3 wins the game! ...Bb2 is followed by Nc5+# while ....Bd4 is followed by Nc1+#....

So it is indeed 2 moves, is that ok or you want it to be strictly 3 moves? then i have to think all over again...

soo like this?

not mate in 3

chesscrazy13

Mar 9, 2009

0

#19

missed Bd4 move gotta work more on this one..

TonightOnly

Mar 9, 2009

0

#20

RJBoy,

Did you miss my question? I was wondering if you knew who the composer was.