How on earth is this position even possible? That Queen can't have gotten to the square it's on, including via promotion, without Black having left his King in check on the last move....
[Edit: Nevermind -- Qxe8# from d8]
Deductive Puzzle #19
Sort:
Jun 13, 2009
0
#3
TheGrobe wrote:
How on earth is this position even possible? That Queen can't have gotten to the square it's on, including via promotion, without Black having left his King in check on the last move....
[Edit: Nevermind -- Qxe8# from d8]
Exactly.... which is, I think, the key to starting this puzzle. What piece could have been at e8? Let's look at what Black's move prior to Qxe8 could have been. It could not have been with any of the pawns, because those captures had to have been made before the White King could get to where he is. Similarly, it could not have been with the Knight as that would result in an "imaginary check" of the White King. Similarly, it could not have been with the Black King due to an imaginary check. Finally, it could not have been with the Rook or Bishop. Thus, Black's last move was to move a piece onto e8. It was either a Queen or Rook from e7 or a Knight from f6.
Jun 13, 2009
0
#4
I also note that, if there were no White promotions, then the dark-squared Bishop must have been given as odds as both Rooks and the Knight would have had to have been captured by Black's Queen-side pawns. Can we prove a White promotion has not occurred?
Jun 13, 2009
0
#5
omnipaul wrote:
TheGrobe wrote:
How on earth is this position even possible? That Queen can't have gotten to the square it's on, including via promotion, without Black having left his King in check on the last move....
[Edit: Nevermind -- Qxe8# from d8]
Exactly.... which is, I think, the key to starting this puzzle. What piece could have been at e8? Let's look at what Black's move prior to Qxe8 could have been. It could not have been with any of the pawns, because those captures had to have been made before the White King could get to where he is. Similarly, it could not have been with the Knight as that would result in an "imaginary check" of the White King. Similarly, it could not have been with the Black King due to an imaginary check. Finally, it could not have been with the Rook or Bishop. Thus, Black's last move was to move a piece onto e8. It was either a Queen or Rook from e7 or a Knight from f6.
The problem is, how did white get the queen to d8? It can't have been there the turn before black blocked on e8, because then black would have left himself in check the previous turn. But if what you just said is also correct, hte h4-d8 diagonal is blocked by black's piece, so how did the white queen get there?
Something wrong with the puzzle - should be "black to move" otherwise makes no sense.
Jun 13, 2009
0
#7
And I think I just solved it. The only way that this position could have arrived is if white had a piece on e8. This would have let the white queen get to d8 from, say h4. Then black could play a move like Nf6, white wastes a move, and black plays Nxe8. The capture is important, because if there was no white piece there, then the black king would have been in check, making the previous position illegal. Now, the only white piece that could be on e8 is a knight or the h-pawn promoted into a bishop. Either way, there are three captures that black had to make on light squares, bxa6, dxc6, and cxb5. Combined with the piece on e8, this makes four, none of which could have been the c1 bishop. Since the only missing white pieces are a two rooks and a knight, then the h-pawn must be the fourth of these, and since every other piece is accounted for, the c1 bishop was given as odds.
Yep! gj WW.
Here is a very very similar one. Who was given as odds by White this time? Know that there have been no promotions in this game.
TheGrobe wrote:
How on earth is this position even possible? That Queen can't have gotten to the square it's on, including via promotion, without Black having left his King in check on the last move....
[Edit: Nevermind -- Qxe8# from d8]
even if it is Qxe8#, how can it be white to move???
WanderingWinder wrote:
And I think I just solved it. The only way that this position could have arrived is if white had a piece on e8. This would have let the white queen get to d8 from, say h4. Then black could play a move like Nf6, white wastes a move, and black plays Nxe8. The capture is important, because if there was no white piece there, then the black king would have been in check, making the previous position illegal. Now, the only white piece that could be on e8 is a knight or the h-pawn promoted into a bishop. Either way, there are three captures that black had to make on light squares, bxa6, dxc6, and cxb5. Combined with the piece on e8, this makes four, none of which could have been the c1 bishop. Since the only missing white pieces are a two rooks and a knight, then the h-pawn must be the fourth of these, and since every other piece is accounted for, the c1 bishop was given as odds.
Still cannot understand how it can be White to move???
If there were no promotions in this game this situation is not legal, because black can't make any move after Qd8. Unless the board is flipped.
Which White piece was given as odds in this game?7