Puzzle algorithm change?

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NeuralNodeSync
aug2021 wrote:
If this was a conscious redesign, I have to say why “fix” what was not broken?! The previous algorithm correctly increased the difficulty of the puzzles as your score increased. It was interesting and challenging. Now the rating is meaningless, and the puzzles are simple.
Also some of us only use the iphone and ipad apps. So why roll out a big change like this without notice or updating the apps at the rollout? There is no option for Difficulty in the apps.
Plus, I miss the running list of recent puzzles under Stats, Puzzles. Did anyone trial or test this change?

The difficulty setting is there (at least on Android), you just have to find it in settings and not on the puzzle page. Definitely adds to the confusion on whether or not this whole puzzle change was intended or not.

bonne_partie

I think there is a confusion. you can change now the rating difficulty of your problems now. Whereas before there was an auto seting mode. Before it was a system designed to compare people based on rating performance. Now, it is just for pleasure to win. Elo level means nothing anymore because if you are >2k elo with puzzle only under 1k... it is useless. actually I monitor my problems average level vs time. in a serie of 20 wins in a row my avg game is decreasing (today around 909 whereas my elo is >2400). The BIG PROBLEM IS that it is not elo anymore. If you win, you win +5. It is completely out of elo computation logic => impossible to compare people performance anymore...

Running-Turtle

The current puzzly algorithm is really out of control, I think. Totally disaster. I hope they will fix it soon.

Martin_Stahl
aug2021 wrote:
If this was a conscious redesign, I have to say why “fix” what was not broken?! The previous algorithm correctly increased the difficulty of the puzzles as your score increased. It was interesting and challenging. Now the rating is meaningless, and the puzzles are simple.
Also some of us only use the iphone and ipad apps. So why roll out a big change like this without notice or updating the apps at the rollout? There is no option for Difficulty in the apps.
Plus, I miss the running list of recent puzzles under Stats, Puzzles. Did anyone trial or test this change?

It's a multi part thing. There should be some communication around it but it's likely that and the other changes will happen closer in time to each other.

amandam001

Even if the UI is going to be improved, there are real issues with these changes. I used to love puzzles and worked really hard for my rating which I felt was completely fair. Everyone had the same rating standards, so it really felt like a goal to achieve a higher rating.

Now, the rating is subject to whatever settings I chose. So what is the point of the rating now?

Even if the difficulty settings are fixed, If I have a 2200 rating with my settings set to extra hard and no hints and compare to someone else who got a 3200 rating by turning on hints and uses standard difficulty, how is that a fair comparison?

Further, if I solve extra hard puzzles now, I seem to get the same +5 as solving an easy puzzle. In the past, I'd see +10 +15, not any more.

Lastly, I used to see all of my puzzles solved, now I only see a shortened list. I liked being able to go back in time, pick a hard puzzle and try to solve it again to see if I improved. I can't do that anymore if I'm only seeing the first page of the puzzles.

I'm not understanding this change at all.

Martin_Stahl
amandam001 wrote:

...

Further, if I solve extra hard puzzles now, I seem to get the same +5 as solving an easy puzzle. In the past, I'd see +10 +15, not any more.

Lastly, I used to see all of my puzzles solved, now I only see a shortened list. I liked being able to go back in time, pick a hard puzzle and try to solve it again to see if I improved. I can't do that anymore if I'm only seeing the first page of the puzzles.

I'm not understanding this change at all.

I still get quite a few over +5 , even on Hard difficulty

Regarding the puzzle archive, the website has always just had 25. I think old versions of the apps may have been different, but the apps haven't had UI changes vas part of the difficulty settings (though the settings impact app puzzle selection)

yaawu
Martin_Stahl wrote:
amandam001 wrote:

...

Further, if I solve extra hard puzzles now, I seem to get the same +5 as solving an easy puzzle. In the past, I'd see +10 +15, not any more.

Lastly, I used to see all of my puzzles solved, now I only see a shortened list. I liked being able to go back in time, pick a hard puzzle and try to solve it again to see if I improved. I can't do that anymore if I'm only seeing the first page of the puzzles.

I'm not understanding this change at all.

I still get quite a few over +5 , even on Hard difficulty

Regarding the puzzle archive, the website has always just had 25. I think old versions of the apps may have been different, but the apps haven't had UI changes vas part of the difficulty settings (though the settings impact app puzzle selection)

Yes, maybe you get some puzzles rated higher, but thats not for everyone the case. I mentionend that earlier, and you said, thats not a bug but part of the redesign.

Even with the same rating and setting, some people get lower and other higher rated puzzles. Again, this leads to the rating being not comparable anymore.

Ikpeip

I only really used the premium membership for the puzzles - today I cancelled my subscription renewal after this recent change. I agree with the general sentiment here of the change eroding any sense of improvement through tracking the rating over time, or having friendly competition with friends and coworkers.

Fire

im really not sure what insane person thought this update would be a good idea

kimerydo
How about solving a puzzle with no issues, but it still giving you -27 points?

Like I get and understand the time aspect (target time) but to punish someone who may have had a phone call or put phone down a sec even with a right answer?
Martin_Stahl
kimerydo wrote:
How about solving a puzzle with no issues, but it still giving you -27 points?
Like I get and understand the time aspect (target time) but to punish someone who may have had a phone call or put phone down a sec even with a right answer?

You should only lose points if it's wrong or you used a hint

wilflibgott
Martin_Stahl wrote:
kimerydo wrote:
How about solving a puzzle with no issues, but it still giving you -27 points?
Like I get and understand the time aspect (target time) but to punish someone who may have had a phone call or put phone down a sec even with a right answer?

You should only lose points if it's wrong or you used a hint

I have hints of by default. That was another dumb change to puzzles. But even with that and getting the solution right, I've encountered such loss of points a few times as well. Makes no sense.

Martin_Stahl

I don't mean the coach hints, which I also disabled. Something like that has been a requested feature for a long time and likely useful for a large portion of members.

What I mean is the actual hint button, which counts as getting the puzzle wrong, same as if you actually chose the wrong move. Or at least I think it still works that way. I only use hints on purpose if I failed a few times

Pawnstarshinz
kimerydo wrote:
How about solving a puzzle with no issues, but it still giving you -27 points?
Like I get and understand the time aspect (target time) but to punish someone who may have had a phone call or put phone down a sec even with a right answer?

Same thing happened to me. I couldn't work it out (why I lost points, not the puzzle).

Schakara42

Thanks fellas, I was just getting more and more sceptic, bcs I couldn't pass 2k for a very long time despite grinding, then I suddenly made it and ezly progressed to 2.5k by now - and for each new rating achievement gained I got more and more sceptic about this.

I mean just check this curve. Lmao. Is there anyone that wouldn't get suspicious after this kind of improvement? I hope chess.com Support will reset my rating to idk 2k after they fixed this bug.

Bobby-D-BG
Pawnstarshinz wrote:
kimerydo wrote:
How about solving a puzzle with no issues, but it still giving you -27 points?
Like I get and understand the time aspect (target time) but to punish someone who may have had a phone call or put phone down a sec even with a right answer?

Same thing happened to me. I couldn't work it out (why I lost points, not the puzzle).

I think this is a bug... I've been spending 40 minutes on puzzles and when I solve it, I get +5. Sometimes (maybe 4-5 times now for the past 2 months) for a properly solved puzzle I get -20 or sth like that. Think it's a bug... very annoying one actually.

Adrian_2704

That change should be reverted. It makes no sense at all. Why would you not connect the rating to the difficulty?

Schakara42

I kept climbing, am at 3.2k meanwhile and the difficulty is slowly rising. If I'd had to guess, I'd say the Rating is basically halved in comparison to before. Like with 3.2k now it feels a bit like back then with 1.6k - so I think I'm almost back to my true rating. Will try to keep climbing until I hit a wall.

amandam001
Martin_Stahl wrote:
amandam001 wrote:

...

Further, if I solve extra hard puzzles now, I seem to get the same +5 as solving an easy puzzle. In the past, I'd see +10 +15, not any more.

Lastly, I used to see all of my puzzles solved, now I only see a shortened list. I liked being able to go back in time, pick a hard puzzle and try to solve it again to see if I improved. I can't do that anymore if I'm only seeing the first page of the puzzles.

I'm not understanding this change at all.

I still get quite a few over +5 , even on Hard difficulty

Regarding the puzzle archive, the website has always just had 25. I think old versions of the apps may have been different, but the apps haven't had UI changes vas part of the difficulty settings (though the settings impact app puzzle selection)

Here is an example of getting points subtracted after answering a puzzle correctly. I'm assuming it's because I answered in 35 seconds? I have no idea what caused my rating to decrease by -21 points, maybe the system thought I answered it wrong? (I didn't).
I wasn't playing speed puzzles, just normal puzzles. This kind of thing never happened to me before the recent updates.
There is a fundamental issue with the puzzle algorithm, I sincerely hope the old algorithm is restored and all of these settings are done away with. Really, the old system wasn't broken at all. It was challenging and fun. Now it feels just random. 
I guess I can feel good that I know I answered it correctly, but still...

Martin_Stahl

Time to solve doesn't matter. Using a hint or reloading the page might cause that though.