Puzzle algorithm change?

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Avatar of Technom4ge
VIProfessor kirjoitti:

It seems like things are slowly coming around. I'm starting to see more puzzles in the 2400-2700 range--a far cry from the slew of 1600-1900 puzzles I've been seeing for the last few weeks.

Definitely seeing a change now. This has been bothering me for a while, that even at the "extra hard" setting it's not actually hard, but now there has clearly been some change. Which is great!

Avatar of jonfrankle
CoachRonald wrote:
jonfrankle wrote:

Getting +5 for every 'win' has been around forever. It wasn't a problem, when at least half the puzzles you were fed were challenging. It became a BIG problem when many people (those with higher ratings, at least) started getting fed long strings of puzzles 1000 points lower than their skill level, that we can get right and run our ratings even higher.

If the eventual goal is to drag the puzzle rating distribution into rough alignment with game (e.g., blitz) ratings, then why not put a pause on puzzles for one day, announce that you are going to map the ratings of all existing puzzle players and all existing puzzles downward to resemble the other distribution, and let everyone loose again.
The "mixed situation" that Martin has mentioned is, as days go by, expanding and extending the long tail of high puzzle ratings (only for those who continue to play, vs. the wise people who are letting the bugs get worked out). It seems virtually certain that this is WORSENING the original problem!

Yeah I don't think +5 is a bad thing. The problem is that at the extremities people keep getting the same puzzles, of which they remember the solutions, and hence these 2^16 puzzle ratings have happened. One guy still has a 65540 rating on the live leaderboard.

To fix it, just introduce more puzzles to the set. 500k puzzles at chess.com compared to 2.5M puzzles at lichess. Just use a computer algorithim to make puzzles like they do. They have fine tuned it to be from human games, so its actually quite good now.

The one thing that chess.com does better than lichess in the puzzles section is the ability to replay the puzzle that you have just completed, and also look it up in your history, which is great for improving at the game. So I'm waiting for the puzzles to be fixed, but until then I will use lichess.

Did you mean that *lichess* keeps your whole puzzle history? (Because it does -- and lets you replay any, or just the ones you missed.) On chess.com, for interesting puzzles at least, I've taken to keeping records of what I've played, which helps me confirm when I think I've seen one before. (That doesn't happen all that often, and cannot explain the huge ratings -- the only explanation for those is cheating, people who solve even the hardest problems, infallibly, in seconds. Give me a break.)

Avatar of CoachRonald

Yes but some players over 10000 rating at puzzles get the same puzzles over and over, so they tend to remember them. Even Tyler1 had a higher puzzle rating (3538) than some grandmasters and people on reddit were asking why and he claimed that because he had done over 12000 puzzles in about 8 months that he remembered a lot of them that were repeats.

How else can the guy rated 65540 keep his rating where it is currently?

Avatar of jonfrankle
The people I checked out with those ridiculous ratings (~65k) NEVER missed, and solved even the hardest problems super fast. For me, the obvious guess is that they use an engine -- especially as some of them have very low ratings as players.
CoachRonald wrote:

Yes but some players over 10000 rating at puzzles get the same puzzles over and over, so they tend to remember them. Even Tyler1 had a higher puzzle rating (3538) than some grandmasters and people on reddit were asking why and he claimed that because he had done over 12000 puzzles in about 8 months that he remembered a lot of them that were repeats.

How else can the guy rated 65540 keep his rating where it is currently?

Avatar of Avazhanskiy

Same stuff after switching difficulty to Extra Hard... Time to claim a portion of subscription fee back from chess.com?

Avatar of Martin_Stahl
avajansky wrote:

Same stuff after switching difficulty to Extra Hard... Time to claim a portion of subscription fee back from chess.com?

How many have you done after switching?

Avatar of MSJ_98

Update: It seems to be fixed for me.

Avatar of Moto664

I’m seeing a pretty good spread of different puzzle types and they are once again mostly in the rating range I’d expect. There’s an occasional very low rated puzzle in the mix but because of the speed expectation, they’re still okay too. I see the standard set for solving time appear to be shorter than in the past but I might be seeing that wrong. That’s okay too, faster is better and should affect scoring accordingly. I’ve run across a handful of puzzles that I would disagree with their rating but it’s been about even high or low and not too widespread. Maybe that will sort out over time.

It’s definitely better than the last week or so.

Avatar of Avazhanskiy
Martin_Stahl wrote:
avajansky wrote:

Same stuff after switching difficulty to Extra Hard... Time to claim a portion of subscription fee back from chess.com?

How many have you done after switching?

around 30-40 I guess, all of them were '+5' puzzles.

Avatar of Martin_Stahl

An, based on your puzzle rating, that makes sense. I'm getting a good mix of values but I'm a lot lower.

Until the final changes are in place, that's likely what you'll continue to see.

Avatar of Nine-point-Circle
Martin_Stahl wrote:
BobSpecial wrote:

"a fix" has been pushed ? and it is worst ^^ now puzzles rates are totally random !!!

I think a change was made to Extra Hard and the ranges of ratings for puzzles seem to be wider and I believe closer to the original algorithm. That said, the selection algorithm is still based on the backend rating updates.

I noticed it now. Thanks Martin.

Avatar of sunstonexbox

Puzzles are back. I'm getting same difficulty puzzles as before. But for some reason my puzzle tier ranking has reset back to wood, I was legend or something high.

Avatar of Martin_Stahl
Mathnerd2015 wrote:
sunstonexbox wrote:

Puzzles are back. I'm getting same difficulty puzzles as before. But for some reason my puzzle tier ranking has reset back to wood, I was legend or something high.

It’s because it’s like a cycle

Yep. I recently stated my fourth cycle.

Avatar of Amadeus_L

I got a few difficult puzzles last week before it switched back to the +5 easy puzzles... Also the rating inflation is very easy to see in the rankings. I had the same rating 2 weeks ago and was 25000 ranks higher than now. Still waiting for the fix

Avatar of samarak

I want to be relevant and kind in my comments, both because we're encouraged to be and because I think it's how we should be. But it's very frustrating as a (paying) customer that whoever is in charge (1) can't be bothered to communicate with upset customers directly about this issue, (2) continues to experiment on those customers without asking or even informing them, and (3) hasn't done the simple, correct, thing and gone back to the code that was running before this mess started. I know they're busy, and that puzzles are only one part of the site, but it is a popular and widely used part, and this has been dragging on for a while now.

Steve

Avatar of BasixWhiteBoy

The most frustrating thing for me is that I was gifted a one-month diamond membership, but could not experience normal puzzles which I was excited about. I feel bad for everyone who bought a monthly membership and had to experience the same bland series of puzzles every single day with no fix. 
In my opinion, memberships should be renewed. But that said, I don’t see that happening.

Avatar of Martin_Stahl
samarak wrote:

I want to be relevant and kind in my comments, both because we're encouraged to be and because I think it's how we should be. But it's very frustrating as a (paying) customer that whoever is in charge (1) can't be bothered to communicate with upset customers directly about this issue, (2) continues to experiment on those customers without asking or even informing them, and (3) hasn't done the simple, correct, thing and gone back to the code that was running before this mess started. I know they're busy, and that puzzles are only one part of the site, but it is a popular and widely used part, and this has been dragging on for a while now.

Steve

There are some additional updates being done to complete the changes. There was information released about it, on social media (X), which has also been shared in a number of the topics.

Avatar of Martin_Stahl
BasixWhiteBoy wrote:

The most frustrating thing for me is that I was gifted a one-month diamond membership, but could not experience normal puzzles which I was excited about. I feel bad for everyone who bought a monthly membership and had to experience the same bland series of puzzles every single day with no fix. 
In my opinion, memberships should be renewed. But that said, I don’t see that happening.

Did you switch to Extra Hard?

Avatar of BasixWhiteBoy
Martin_Stahl wrote:
BasixWhiteBoy wrote:

The most frustrating thing for me is that I was gifted a one-month diamond membership, but could not experience normal puzzles which I was excited about. I feel bad for everyone who bought a monthly membership and had to experience the same bland series of puzzles every single day with no fix. 
In my opinion, memberships should be renewed. But that said, I don’t see that happening.

Did you switch to Extra Hard?

Yes. It didn't do much, as they were still still too easy.

Avatar of sunstonexbox
Mathnerd2015 wrote:
sunstonexbox wrote:

Puzzles are back. I'm getting same difficulty puzzles as before. But for some reason my puzzle tier ranking has reset back to wood, I was legend or something high.

It’s because it’s like a cycle

I thought that might be the case. I thought I was in the teens still when it happened. But solving 50 puzzles in a row made it fly by.

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