Shortest-proof-game challenge

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Avatar of EvinSung
Avatar of tygxc

@6114

Avatar of Leither123
n9531l1 wrote:

Here's a game in 27.5. Leither will tell us how much shorter it needs to be.

I don't know how short it can get, but here's an attempt in 25.5.

Avatar of n9531l1

How short a proof game can you find for this position?

Avatar of RewanDemontay
n9531l1 wrote:

How short a proof game can you find for this position?

A tight 29.5 to begin with.

Avatar of EndgameEnthusiast2357

Why. Are. All. These. Proof. Games. Ending. in. Half. Moves??????????

All proof games should have black make the last move so ends in a full move. Positions where black is in check or otherwise couldnt have made the last move should be disqualified.

Avatar of BishopTakesH7
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:

Why. Are. All. These. Proof. Games. Ending. in. Half. Moves??????????

Same reason player games end in half moves

Avatar of RewanDemontay
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:

Why. Are. All. These. Proof. Games. Ending. in. Half. Moves??????????

All proof games should have black make the last move so ends in a full move. Positions where black is in check or otherwise couldnt have made the last move should be disqualified.

Just deal with it, yo. You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not going to be able to force us to change are merry half move PGing ways.

Proofgame In 0.5
Avatar of n9531l1
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:

All proof games should have black make the last move so ends in a full move.

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

Who said that?

Avatar of Arisktotle
BishopTakesH7 wrote:
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:

Why. Are. All. These. Proof. Games. Ending. in. Half. Moves??????????

Same reason player games end in half moves

Yes, and all direct checkmate problems and almost all endgame studies end in "half moves". It is only natural that most problems have "odd-ply" durations. The side with the mission starts - like white mates in 3 - and also completes the mission which per definition produces an "odd-ply" duration. The exceptions are the cooperative stpulations which have no mission leaders and therefore no preferred odd/even duration! (helpmates and proof games). The special ones are the selfmates because white cannot execute a selfmate move by the rules and needs to defer that task to black!

Avatar of EndgameEnthusiast2357

Well certain instances of half-moves can be eliminated. Such as resignation. When black wants to resign he should be required to make a move first, even a random one, so that the game is more complete. Since black has nothing to lose in terms of points by not following this rule, other penalties may have to be imposed to enforce it, such as disqualification from the tournament if black resigns without first making a move.

Avatar of Arisktotle
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:

Well certain instances of half-moves can be eliminated. Such as resignation. When black wants to resign he should be required to make a move first, even a random one, so that the game is more complete. Since black has nothing to lose in terms of points by not following this rule, other penalties may have to be imposed to enforce it, such as disqualification from the tournament if black resigns without first making a move.

Of course, you can always make a simple thing complicated. Especially if you choose not to provide a single argument for it. All games of all lengths are equally complete, except for someone with a fetish for odd or even numbers of plies.

Avatar of EndgameEnthusiast2357

The argument is self-explanatory, whole numbers vs move numbers with decimal points in them. More confusing to follow. The rule would work conversely. White would have to wait for black to move before he could resign.

Avatar of owenr761

Just a random game

Avatar of Arisktotle
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:

The argument is self-explanatory, whole numbers vs move numbers with decimal points in them. More confusing to follow. The rule would work conversely. White would have to wait for black to move before he could resign.

Not at all. One could just as simply use the notation system of Draughts or Go. If you want to straighten up the numbers you should propose to double the move numbers rather than change the game. I'd have some sympathy for that!

Avatar of Kyobir
This one is a bit different from the other shortest proof game challenges.
Avatar of Kyobir

Checkpoint Position: Must be reached before the Final Position. (after 25... bxa4)

Avatar of EvinSung
Avatar of tygxc

@6129

"This one is a bit different from the other shortest proof game challenges."
++ No. This is 2 shortest proof games in one.

  1. Shortest proof game from the initial position to the Checkpoint Position.
  2. Shortest proof game from the Checkpoint Position to the Final Position.

For problem 1 a shortest proof game in 22:

Avatar of tygxc

@6131

Shorter