The Hardest Puzzle.

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chessaddictress

Well, I think the visual display that results when you very quickly work through ipburke86's solution is quite impressive!  It reminds me of a scene in Alice in WonderlandPerhaps we should just consider this solution as a work of art, and consider the puzzle solved (and it may actually be).

@k-huang:  While the position is illegal, one could work on it with legal moves, and I imagine that the idea was just to have fun! 

ChessisGood

@K-Huang

1. If there is an impractical puzzle, should impractical choices be made. If you're in a terrible position, should you make terrible moves? Why then should illegal moves be necessary? This is simply a puzzle I created.

2. I do not know what the solution is. However, I am quite sure that with best play, white should be able to win.

ChessisGood
lpburke86 wrote:

one can give moves to the opponent that one wants them to make, but often they are not the opponent's best moves.

 

And thats what made me say black had the advantage... Its kinda like proving God... If you beleive, you can prove he exists; if you dont beleive, you can prove he doesn't.


Strange analogy, but interesting idea. Every capture does seem to bring him forward...

CalbaMan

Seems like I've missed half a debate!

apteryx

CalbaMan

Yup, exactly!

ChessisGood

@Apteryx

How does that position win? I know the solution with one row of queens, but if two rows works as well, we might have a definite algorithm going. I think you really struck gold with that idea.

lpburke86
chessisgood wrote:

2. I do not know what the solution is. However, I am quite sure that with best play, white should be able to win.


If you look at page three, both white and black are able to win...

apteryx

I'm not sure if the algorithm works, since in the 2 rows of queens, an essential part of the win is the pin against the e7-queen.

chessgdt

Not possible. There are 31 queens per side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!UndecidedWink

chessaddictress

But, ipburke86, we must be careful when we say that both sides are able to win, if this is based on the fact that you made two different winning lines in which you, as you admit yourself, so to speak, believed each individual win into existence. This is different than correct winning lines, I'm pretty sure you are aware.  Or we might have to change the definition of "win".  Smile 

Supermissile

There.
jan2fonsie

chessaddictress

Good work, guys!  Your diagrams prove there is more than one solution to the puzzle.  I wonder how many different solutions there are?  And we can forget about a "correct" line here, as well as computer analysis!  I wonder how many...

jan2fonsie

lpburke86

I think there is no correct answer... I see on all these diagrams, including mine, moves that if another had been in its place, the other side would have won.

chessaddictress

@jan2fonsie:  Wouldn't the following idea have been a better approach in the final mating net in your diagram?  Smile

ChessisGood
jan2fonsie wrote:

 


Not at all forced.

Escapest_Pawn

jan2fonsie,

I should be censured for getting involved in this, but rifling through your post 101, isn't 23 Qf8 a clear mate?

chessaddictress

Yes, Escapest_Pawn, that is true, 23.Qf8 would be mate for sure.  I just ignored the whole "middle game" as so much fluff and only looked at the more realistic-appearing position before the mating net.  And jan2fonsie was probably just having some fun.  Little did he know what he had gotten himself into...