Anti-War Songs

Thanks! For some reason I've really tuned into Yeats recently. Love his stuff. 

                                54 - 64

anti war : the most numerous ppl who are anti wars are soldiers, because a good one has fear for war, and works on his fear.  One of the best one , Turenne, said to his horse : "you have fear, but if you knew where i would drive u, you' d be more afraid. " This quote is used by professionals in training.

officiers too, the best worked on fear, then have an objective: either get the mission in mode zero killed, (OK) either be alive to come back for debriefing and improving.

Sparte / Greece : was defeated by Athens, and Sparte was not as clever than Athens : "you will come back either on the shield (dead) either under (triumph) ". 

Pean, song from Athenians is used before the battle, to protect women who don't fight. We may consider it as anti-war, which doesn't mean you have not to conduct it, in that period, if u love yourfamily u want to protect from Sparte.

 In highest general grades, some are anti - war, some pro -war. The song is the same : for instance de Souza march is not pro or anti war, just victory song.

Another song is interesting : Internationale ! the word starting with are : battle , it means " lutte finale " "fianl fight " to be in aeternity in peace, ANTI WAR, no more war. Interesting paradox, idem for La Marseillaise offering freedom to humanity 'in principle, ) ie NO war any more, and having "aux armes, citoyens" !

concerning teh aspect "horror " of war, no deny : after Argonne Chemin des Dames 1914 -1918, incredible catastrophic battle, a huge mutinery started, giving a famous song , forbidden during 75 year+ : CRAONNE.

I dunno post french words for translation available on request.

Today it is rehabilitation  of mutins, lotta people were sent to cemetery. With no monument till nowdays.

this anti war thread is really interesting, pacific, pacifism system, protect ppl with patriotism, I tried to be complete without parti - pris.

If sthg is offending OP / MOD deleted on 1st request.

In case i'm undecipherable above, me i think war is craps.

Anti wars campaign generally started little before starting new ones (cf. Jaures / août 1914, frente popular Spain, front populaire pacifism 1936). Paradoxes of mankind

Batgirl,

Was technology far ahead of tactics during the American Civil War? Technology had evolved since the Napoleonic area yet American Civil War battles do not seem to have been markedly bloodier than the battles of the Napoleonic period.

Anyway here is “A SONG OF WAR-CHARIOTS” by Du Fu (杜甫)

兵車行

车辚辚
马萧萧
行人弓箭各在腰
耶娘妻子走相送
尘埃不见咸阳桥
牵衣顿足阑道哭
哭声直上干云霄
道傍过者问行人
行人但云点行频
或从十五北防河
便至四十西营田
去时里正与裹头
归来头白还戍边
边亭流血成海水
武皇开边意未已
君不闻汉家山东二百州
千村万落生荆杞
纵有健妇把锄犁
禾生陇亩无东西
况复秦兵耐苦战
被驱不异犬与鸡
长者虽有问
役夫敢申恨
且如今年冬
未休关西卒
县官急索租
租税从何出
信知生男恶
反是生女好
生女犹得嫁比邻
生男埋没随百草
君不见青海头
古来白骨无人收
新鬼烦冤旧鬼哭
天阴雨湿声啾啾

With a possible translation below

A SONG OF WAR-CHARIOTS

The war-chariots rattle,

The war-horses whinny.

Each man of you has a bow and a quiver at his belt.

Father, mother, son, wife, stare at you going,

Till dust shall have buried the bridge beyond Changan.

They run with you, crying, they tug at your sleeves,

And the sound of their sorrow goes up to the clouds;

And every time a bystander asks you a question,

You can only say to him that you have to go.

...We remember others at fifteen sent north to guard the river

And at forty sent west to cultivate the campfarms.

The mayor wound their turbans for them when they started out.

With their turbaned hair white now, they are still at the border,

At the border where the blood of men spills like the sea --

And still the heart of Emperor Wu is beating for war.

...Do you know that, east of China's mountains, in two hundred districts

And in thousands of villages, nothing grows but weeds,

And though strong women have bent to the ploughing,

East and west the furrows all are broken down?

...Men of China are able to face the stiffest battle,

But their officers drive them like chickens and dogs.

Whatever is asked of them,

Dare they complain?

For example, this winter

Held west of the gate,

Challenged for taxes,

How could they pay?

...We have learned that to have a son is bad luck-

It is very much better to have a daughter

Who can marry and live in the house of a neighbour,

While under the sod we bury our boys.

...Go to the Blue Sea, look along the shore

At all the old white bones forsaken --

New ghosts are wailing there now with the old,

Loudest in the dark sky of a stormy day.

My point was that the American Civil was bloodier than it should have been.  They still used Napoleonic tactics (Maybe not only Bonaparte, but Napoleon III tactics too) which didn't account for rifled guns, especially rifled artillery, use of percussion caps, gatlin guns, ironclad ships, landmines etc. As the war dragged on the tactics evolved.  Numerically, the Napoleonic wars seem bloodier, but comparing percent of casualies, it's not so clear.  For instance the South had 37% casualties at Gettysburg (the North had 28%) but the bloodiest Napoleonic battle, by percentage,  seems to be Eylau in which the French suffered 9% and the Prussian/Russian army 41%.  In other battles, the Civil War seems to have generated consistently higher percentage of casualties.   But again, it's the idea that the American losses were much greater than they would have been had technology not exceeded the tactics, those developed up to that time that had been taught in military schools. 

Anyway, that's how I see it.

EYLAU 1807 , 02 , Napoleon I battle, was terrific, VICTOR HUGO one of the most known poets, wrote incredible masterpiece : 

                           Le cimetière d'Eylau 

No one could put music on that masterpiece.

(too long to be quoted)

        "Faites vous tuer - Ou ? - dans le cimetière"

          "Be killed  - Where ? - in the cemetery"

It is the dialog where the officier gives on the morning the last order , and .... the place to execute the order for the troop.

On the begin, morning, 120 soldiers in Hugo's uncle group.

On the sunset : the officer "-how many alive are you ?  - 3!

Eylau still fascinates on various aspects: it i considered as a .... Victory of Napoleon, 6 years before one of the biggest defeats of the whole history of mankind, ie Russia Retreat. One of the most productive for men to be killed, they speak about 6000 in two hours ! 30000 in ONE day !!

NEY Great general of Napoleon said "Pyrrhus style "Victory", ie .... useless, the expert speaks.

Beside that, it gave another masterpiece from BALZAC :

Le colonel Chabert, roman, describing a soldier coming back years after Eylau , then Waterloo, disappearing and being sent by his wife in asylum, another victim of Eylau, 15 years after ! another anti war reason, song without music.

Last thing, Beethoven : he started to be in love with Napoleon, and dedicated a music to anti war by freedom : ie CONCERTO KAISER Emperor ! 5, THE absolute masterpiece for pianists !!! Rubinstein Arthur version, i suggest, is some anti war song without words, immense hope by ...Napoleon 1808 - 1809! the same year than EYLAU useless battle and record of the number of human victims was !!!

Then Beethoven realized Napoleon was a tyran , a butcher, "l'Ogre", sort of Trotsky of XIXth century.

and Beethoven was the biggest ennemy of Napoleon !!

AND WROTE THE ANTI WAR SONG OF ALL TIMES EVERY EUROPEAN KNOWS, including words, music :

9th SYMPHONY !!!    Hymn Freude, ie ..... HAPPINESS on of the objectives goals of mankind written in UNO 1947/48 Human rights Universal Statement. 

every schoolboy in EU, 350 mio. of ppl, knows Hymn à la joie is EU hymn too.  If I had to give THE example of anti war construction, it could be UNO. If I had to give THE example of anti war song, it would be a must :

AN DIE FREUDE (Happiness Hymn, ) Ode an die Freude, Friedrich von Schiller 1785 words, Beethoven music 1824.

Any error will be modified, ty Batgirl , i'd like to be the Batgirl of mankind history. .

deleted totally or partially on OP/MOD request.

Concerning anti war songs, words are important, music is too.

but we may notice with the biggest, Victo Hugo,Balzac, etc ... music is in words, and notes are useless if you read it loud. Incredible how the pire catastrophic events can bring the best moments for mankind in art, litterature.

According to the famous sentence "eye listens ", from greatest Paul Valéry, we may consider a painting as an efficient : anti war son ! i really enjoy this paradox, ie no words, no music !!! and ...anti war son. i dunno if I can produce here famous painting "Eylau cemetery" (Antoine Gros) , well known by all experts, it is Napoleon himself visiting battle ground , imagine any XXth century dictator, criminal, Sgt Doe visiting Liberia Monrovia.

Anti war painting may be are "off topics" except for artists. UK knows how hymn Beethoven is important.

Brexit

All UK people thing BREXIT will directly conduct UK to quit EU, ie find again the way to escape the construction of peace. reason why Brexit threads are important: they are therapies of groups really traumatized by war, in any case Brexit threads are political groups, fortunately. We may consider Brexin as anti war soung, Brexit as pro war music too, kind of group therapy in a big Empire scale. 

UK helped EU to do away with war, language produced in english masterpieces worldwide known. it woud be an interesting kuan/paradox to see that language give the biggest move bringing people in an origin of wars: 

patriotism, today considered as  new ....value, which seems unbelievible. 

Under patriotism, we have plenty of concepts, words, and anti war songs. It depends on the place u want to get : 

the same thema can be seen with various looks : 

for me, it is not interesting, my point of view (old, expandalbe papy, naturist, etc ... who cares ). 

what is difficult is to understand the others : how Brexit is a pro war song, could help us to define why people suffer so uch in a scale of a big Empire to find enough patriotism to go back to path of war ??? i'd like to know more about how Brexit is not a political thema, just a pro war song may be, or an anti war song ???? 

nothing personal, just music, words, fascinating thread here. ty Batgirl.

Green berets is a moderate patriotistic song leading to peace, who knows ? Brexit is a whole song of ne of the biggest kingdoms leading to war some day , who knows ?

Error would thing Brexit is politics, it is a song pro war for nationalists patriotics prouds of their flags, total respect??

that approach, new trend in XXIth century, may leads in some experts mind , to ....war ! 

How many people starting with good intention in fine gave the biggest catastrophic events, yesterday Napoleon, tomorrow what king ? who knows ? fortunately music is good and brings peace to mankind, me i think.

Anti war is common to all, patriotism is something respected in catalunya, EU for instance because they are NOT yet a state. they are choosing their hymn, generally new state choose anti war music as a first task, before money, to create the new order they want, the destiny they choose.

LA MARSEILLAISE, may be as known as BEETHOVEN, may be even more, is a patriotic song in a sense it was creating new order, Republic in France.

It is THE most used song to describe freedom, and was NOT used by Napoleon!!

EXCEPT IN WATERLOO, as if Napoleon recognized a few minuts he was horrible ennemy of freedom, just war for war, as all UK people think.

Thus we may think la Marseillaise is an anti war song, proven given by the terrible "Ogre" himself.

concerning UK, most are patriotic, some hav heard abou the continent, no one could imagine given them Hymn Freude EU continental choosed instead of "God save the queen" ? Fascinating music known all over the world, who was used in many EMPIRE wars : could be " God save the Queen " be an anti war hymn ? really ??? a pro war hymn , may be ?? Brexit therapy de group will soon give the answer, as far as Brexit is a national therapy for lotta ppl, 60 millions, more, USA and continent respect without understanding where they are, in war , in music, in national pro or anti war songs, religious too ?

We all love "god save the Queen", the use today is undecipherable for 300 millions of continental people in EU, 300 millions of american, we'll know more in a few months when they'll finish Brexit therapy, me I think. So in both case they will be right, "right or wrong, my EU" said Winston Churchill before preparing war in 1938, and anti wars fore ever in 194445 Yalta Teheran with Roosevelt specialist, and Stalin well known for personal ideas about anti war music. It is history , not politics.

Brexit is therapy, me i think, not politics, in taht case this post wouldbe deleted.

delete on first MOD OP request, i have no personal imply in that interesting question, i play variations of God save the Queen, i play variation on internationale too, and i sing marche de Souza too, really, sometimes on the morning. who cares here, beside me fB, nothing more ??

I love that thread we learn things here.

G       C           G          Em  
When I was a young man I carried me pack
      G              D         G
And I lived the free life of a rover
                        C            G        Em 
From the Murray's green basin to the dusty Outback
  G             D        G
I waltzed my Matilda all over

        D       C             G
Then in 1915 me country said, Son
     D                                 C          G
It's time you stopped rambling there's work to be done
                  C                 G         Em
So they gave me a tin hat, and they gave me a gun
         G            D         G
And they marched me away to the war

     G                   C           G
     And the band played Waltzing Matilda
                            C           D   Dsus4  D
     When the ship pulled away from the quay
           C            Am          G          Em
     And amidst all the tears, flag-waving and cheers
        G              D      G  Gsus4  G
     We sailed off for Gallipoli

        G        C           G        Em
And how well I remember that terrible day
         G                 D            G
When our blood stained the sand and the water
                C              G          Em
And how in that hell that they call Suvla Bay
        G              D            G
We were butchered like lambs at the slaughter

       D                       C              G
Johnny Turk he was ready, he'd primed himself well
   D                              C                G
He rained us with bullets, and he showered us with shells
                    C         G               Em
And in five minutes flat he'd blown us all to hell
       G            D            G
Nearly blew us back home to Australia

     G                   C           G
     And the band played Waltzing Matilda
                        C        D   Dsus4  D
     When we stopped to bury our slain
     C         Am            G            Em
     We buried ours, and the Turks buried theirs
             G           D      G  Gsus4  G
     Then we started all over again

     G              C              G           Em  
And those that were left, well, we tried to survive
        G            D                G
In that mad world of blood, death and fire
                  C            G        Em 
And for ten weary weeks I kept myself alive
        G           D             G
While around me the corpses piled higher

       D                            C         G
Then a big Turkish shell knocked me arse over head
    D                  C        G
And when I awoke in me hospital bed
                    C             G            Em
And saw what it had done, well, I wished I was dead
      G              D                 G
Never knew there was worse things than dying

     G                  C           G
     So no more I'll go Waltzing Matilda
                          C            D   Dsus4  D
     All around the green bush far and near
        C             Am     G              Em
     To hump tent and pegs a man needs both legs
             G           D        G  Gsus4  G
     No more Waltzing Matilda for me

        G            C            G             Em  
So they gathered the wounded, the crippled, the maimed
         G               D            G
And they shipped us back home to Australia
                 C            G            Em 
The armless, the legless, the blind, the insane
      G             D         G
Those proud wounded heroes of Suvla

    D                         C        G
And when the ship pulled into Circular Quay
  D                            C            G
I looked at the place where me legs used to be
                             C            G           Em
And thanked Christ there was no one there waiting for me
   G             D            G
To grieve and to mourn and to pity

     G                   C           G
     And the band played Waltzing Matilda
                          C            D   Dsus4  D
     When they carried us down the gangway
         C      Am                 G               Em
     But nobody cheered, they just stood there and stared
               G                D      G  Gsus4  G
     Then they turned all their faces away

   G         C       G         Em  
So now every April I sit on my porch
      G            D          G
And I watch the parade pass before me
             C            G            Em 
I see my old comrades how proudly they march
  G          D              G
Renewing old dreams of past glory

        D                         C               G
And the old men march slowly, all bones stiff and sore
        D                       C         G
They're tired old heroes from a forgotten war
                     C               G             Em
And the young people ask, "What are they marching for?"
    G       D             G
And I ask myself the same question

     G                  C           G
     And the band plays Waltzing Matilda
                           C          D   Dsus4  D
     And the old men still answer the call
         C          Am         G           Em
     But year after year their numbers are fewer
             G           D              G  Gsus4  G
     Someday no one will march there at all

G                 C
Waltzing Matilda, Waltzing Matilda
G                                   D
Who'll come a-Waltzing Matilda with me?
          G             D        Em                C
And their ghosts may be heard as they march by the Billabong
C             G          D7         G
Who'll come a-Waltzing Matilda with me?

troll ? worse ?? fragile ???  reported , he'll tell us it is an old song from "Red devils" before mathc, anti- war or war soccers team song ???  interesting. 

Batgirl u were on "topics" threads, you'll discover plenty of things on "off topics", foreigners retired old papys (me, fB), soccer IQ supporters,too, learning things and bringing weird stuff, sometimes correlated to the topic. Most are not dangerous, some are "anger" no one knows why. 

"Anti-war songs" falls under the genre of protest songs, or social movement songs.

Can we post any protest song?

I promise to stick to english 

Of course if doesn' offence with words , CRAONNE was the 1st protest song, today a piece of history in all countries. It means war I was horrible, nothing more! But at the moment it is launched circumstances make law different in war time (martial law ) than in peace time, 70 years later paradigm changes.

any way each post can be deleted, this one will be .

for instance Waltzing Mathilda see above is a patriotic quasi national hymn which has exactly nothing to do with anti war or war songs, it was just used for class fighting , weird as a strike in cimeteries (cf. other posts from the same troll). 

it is a symbol of war, not an anti war.  Bad troll.

fb tries to wreck everyones threads batgirl, like having something unpleasant stuck on the bottom your shoe; difficult to wipe off and smells bad.

 The Band played Waltzing Matilda is about Gallipoli.  This was yet another great disaster of so-called military planning with terrible losses for both sides involved.  For the enlisted men that is, not for the generals back home sipping their brandy. 

The British battleships rained down death and destruction on the Turkish troops while the Allied forces, many from Oz and New Zealand, were slaughtered on the beaches and as they disembarked from the ships landing them.  A terrible waste of humanity on both sides, as depicted in the words of the song.  My great uncle was wounded there.  He told me about it and I have his medals.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_the_Band_Played_Waltzing_Matilda

ty for ref..buni

in what is it "anti-", commemorating a battle ???

sounds like : in what is Brexit not politics ?      just asking. 

I dunno polemics, insults are a must FP uses, not even optionnal. Me, fB, dunno need it to convince. 

"The song describes war as futile and gruesome, while criticising those who seek to glorify it."

+10000  war is craps  

For bunicula , he never insults : 

1. I totally respects Gallipolli vets, all Vets, from all armies; uncles with medals, ie all my family too, but...me !

2. My question is : in what a protest song wroten in 1971 , ie 65  years AFTER the  awful events, is operational in ANTI war action, useful, efficiency, result, purpose ? 

1. the author courageousy leaves  in the 1950's, peaceful EU, calm since 5000 years, sheeps, Angus, calm and volupty, to emigrate in (humour, EU is begin for two Wwars)

Australia ,

the well known place being considered as the most peaceful place in the world. 

"Courage, fuyons" ?

IDK, i don't judge. i ask, "courage, escape"  (Talleyrand) ?? 

*****************************************************

A element to answer other way to my useless question :

ANTI-war songs , protests songs : for what ????? what result .. waht role ?? what action,  beside political votes influence ?  

1. to avoid draft?             IDK, villaine thinking, fB.

2. to describe "landscape AFTER the battle" , like movies ?

3. to try to diminish number of wars ???

or to terrify ennemy ?? well, they have no enemy in Australia, fortunately.

Suppose  bunicula, there is in the neighbourhood Australia an excited (not me) wanting to give nuc ability to a small country, five thousand miles North, Korea for instance.

               It is not politics, just pure fiction.

What to do ? sing under the windows of the villain dictator :

           "and the band played Waltzing Matilda" ?

  or buy a couple of 14 toys going beneath the waves ?

i precise i have NO the answer, it is nothing personal, seems connected to topic, can be deleted any time. Ty.

Are we entitled that protest songs are the LESS useful tools to avid wars, to be ANTI- war. A Patriot is Anti Scud, a protest song could hv the same utility ? or be a pacifist pacific romance like old times "temps des Cerises" everyboyd loves world wide?