classical chess is for crippled old birds
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I strongly disagree and think that you haven’t discovered enough about the game to understand the pure beauty of it . Every move has a purpose. The position is unique. There are many solutions to think of, variations to calculate and that’s why chess is so fun to a lot of deep thinkers. If all you do is play blitz or bullet then your really missing out on the true satisfaction of knowing that you out calculated your opponent or understood deeper than them. Not just hoping they are too slow on the clock or made a few more blunders than you did. I dare say there isn’t nearly as much satisfaction from winning a bullet game as a classical one.
Apr 25, 2022
0
#63
CooloutAC wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
CooloutAC wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
CooloutAC wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
CooloutAC wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
CooloutAC wrote:
llama51 wrote:
chesschainmaster wrote:
Blitz and bullet is the best. With the short time controls, you have to play at your potential, and you learn more.
I remember on of my draws against an IM (who was also higher rated than me) in bullet... I was losing the entire game, but luckily he made the mistake of playing it like a "real" game and traded down into a 100% winning endgame.
This was a mistake because speed games are silly in that there's not enough time to win endgames that are 100% wins. He should have stayed in the middlegame where it would have been harder for me to premove shuffling around.
"Play to your potential?" Not really.
To quote Levon Aronian "In blitz it is not always about making the "correct" move, it is about posing the hardest questions to your opponent"
And to quote Hikaru Nakamura "Don't dwell on the amount of blunders you make in bullet, relish in the fact you win more by making less blunders then your opponent"
I personally feel if you want to get better at classical play more classical, if you want to get better at speed chess play more speed chess. The different time controls require different strategies and approaches imo.
But as I said as a complete beginner I feel the slower the time control, the easier it is to learn the game. But its not necessary if one just analyzes all their games and doesn't get frustrated by losing more games playing speed chess.
I think the point is this. No one learned chess by playing speed chess.
I did. Most people have in modern times. Speed chess and practice exercises. Not only did I learn by playing speedchess. If it wasn't for speedchess I would not have even got interested in chess. After seeing the show queens gambit on netflix, I started watching streamers on twitch like Hikaru or Botez sisters, then I watched clubs stream on youtube like Coffee Chess from LA or CFN Channel from Moscow. And then I bought a beginner book and went on to chess.com to learn playing 5 min blitz.
So the person that taught you how to play chess set up the bard and pieces and you both started playing speed chess? How did you learn how the pieces move?
online of course. I learned about 6 months ago. did practice exercises and the beginner lessons, which now that I just resubscribed I will start doing again. and started playing 5 min games. I almost quit at first because I was literally stuck at rating 100 for a week and people on the forums thought I was trolling. lol
And that is what i mean by "learning how to play chess." That is why i said NO ONE learned to play chess by playing speed chess.
No my friend. You implied people learned how to play chess by playing classical. Which I will be as bold as to say, is not true for most of the people on this website.
Consider the average rating on this website and tell me why what is true for "most" is in any way to be applauded.
Is this your superiority complex shining through again? I guess you think its better to disparage them? Now you go back and consider that the rapid rating is pretty much the same and tell me why your comment is even relevant to the discussion? Shame on your snobby elitist attitude.
The point is fairly clear. The average chess player on this site does not really know much more than how the pieces move. There's no reason to get your panties in a twist. It's not a personal insult aimed at you. It's a point about the logic of your argument.
Opinions should be weighed, not simply counted. The number of people holding a view is not a measure of the truth of that view. When it comes to learning chess, I think the opinions of those who do well carry more weight.
@Steven-ODonoghue is starting to agree with you. He's a decent player.
Apr 25, 2022
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#64
It may be boring for you, but it’s something to look forward to for me 
Coolout have you ever played a classical game? I get the feeling you’re knocking it before you try it. And if you have, did you get utterly destroyed? If so, I can see why you didn’t like it.
Apr 25, 2022
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#66
CooloutAC wrote:
Beginners only play blitz, even without clocks, because until they learn something about the game they do not have enough to think about to give them any reason to play slower. You need to be able to see threats in order to be able to invest time analyzing these threats.
Pretty sure you got it backwards bud. Most play slow rapid chess, because people like you tell them thats what beginners should play.
I've taught over a thousand beginners to play. I watch them play. I know how they play.
I've run well over one hundred youth tournaments and attended at least that many more. Most games are over in less than ten minutes when the time control is game 30.
I have data. What do you have?
Apr 25, 2022
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#67
chess can be likened to an infinitely tall mountain of skill: granted, you can never climb all the way to the top, but i'd still like to see how high i can go... in relation to the mountain.
not the other climbers racing to base camp. 🙂
Apr 25, 2022
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#68
technical_knockout wrote:
chess can be likened to an infinitely tall mountain of skill: granted, you can never climb all the way to the top, but i'd still like to see how high i can go... in relation to the mountain.
not the other climbers racing to base camp. 🙂
Well said.
I played in an OTB tournament this weekend. That's real chess. The camaraderie is part of it, such as the hatred directed my way for nearly four hours while locked in struggle with a friend I've known 45 years.
Apr 25, 2022
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#69
Wdym not playing at average level for long time ? You can get to the average relatively quickly (on chess.com , otb is harder ) it takes fewer games when playing longer time controls because you learn more from each one
Apr 25, 2022
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#70
Not only is it conventional wisdom, but it's just common sense.
If you want to be fast and accurate, you first have to practice being slow and accurate... that's not just chess that's anything.
Apr 25, 2022
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#71
Ziryab wrote:
technical_knockout wrote:
chess can be likened to an infinitely tall mountain of skill: granted, you can never climb all the way to the top, but i'd still like to see how high i can go... in relation to the mountain.
not the other climbers racing to base camp. 🙂
Well said.
I played in an OTB tournament this weekend. That's real chess. The camaraderie is part of it, such as the hatred directed my way for nearly four hours while locked in struggle with a friend I've known 45 years.
Civil war
Cooloutac, Wesley So is a super grandmaster. He has discovered almost if not everything there is to know about it the game.
You on the other hand probably don’t know much. “Best” played lines don’t always lead to draws. Once again showing your lack of knowledge. It’s a developed skill to be able to calculate at the speed and accuracy or gms. Your blitz/bullet games are usually probably just mindless moving of the pieces.
You on the other hand probably don’t know much. “Best” played lines don’t always lead to draws. Once again showing your lack of knowledge. It’s a developed skill to be able to calculate at the speed and accuracy or gms. Your blitz/bullet games are usually probably just mindless moving of the pieces.
Apr 25, 2022
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#73
Steven-ODonoghue wrote:
CooloutAC wrote:
I did. Most people have in modern times. Speed chess and practice exercises. Not only did I learn by playing speedchess. If it wasn't for speedchess I would not have even got interested in chess.
I am the same as Coolout, I got introduced to chess through online blitz. Online blitz and bullet is what I enjoy, it is all I play nowadays and all I ever intend to play.
In the past I would have disagreed with coolout here, but I think he is slowly winning me over.
In my opinion the old days of "never play blitz, don't study openings, slowly work through chess books with a real board, meticulously analyse your classical games with a pencil and paper" are over.
kids these days are getting better by playing thousands of blitz and bullet games online, then relaxing by watching chess on youtube, solving puzzles for hours, drilling openings all day on chessable, doing puzzle rush etc. IMO this is how you improve in 2022
not only do I think that classical chess is on it's way out, but I truly belive that it is possible to become one of the best online blitz and bullet players in the world with no classical chess whatsoever.
I think in the next 5-10 years we will start seeing more and more young players - products of the online chess generation who are getting online ratings of 3000 and above, without ever setting foot in a classical tournament.
Different times and I can see that happening.
I took the game up again just over a year ago after 20 years. Back in those days (boy I sound old), I learned chess from my friends uncle who was a strong club player; you had to know somebody if you were serious on learning chess. I also had to drive across town every weekend lol.
Fast forward to now, it’s pretty cool to see somethings haven’t gone out of style like the Sicilian and Semi-Slav (that’s what my coach played and therefore taught) but now you can just YouTube a 10 minute video and off you go.
With respect to speed chess, it was a valuable tool to me for experimenting with openings and middle game planning. I developed a taste for the game.
I recently reviewed my 5/5 vs 15/10 stats and the accuracy rating were comparable above 80%; I’ll take it.
Apr 25, 2022
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#74
Jalex13 wrote:
. Your blitz/bullet games are usually probably just mindless moving of the pieces.
There's no need to speculate. The games are available for all to see.
Apr 25, 2022
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#75
I think one time Ben Fingold joked about "white bread" chess by which he meant people learning to play "properly" like a Russian schoolboy so to speak. The other side is park players who might beat masters in blitz, but have never opened a book, can't name an opening or tell you what a bad pawn structure is.
So sure, you can specialize in tricks and get good at very fast time controls without knowing much about chess... you'll eventually hit a wall (most people before master level) where you'll have to go back and learn a few things.
Apr 25, 2022
0
#76
CooloutAC wrote:
llama51 wrote:
Not only is it conventional wisdom, but it's just common sense.
If you want to be fast and accurate, you first have to practice being slow and accurate... that's not just chess that's anything.
practice being slow to be fast? Thats the opposite of common sense. To reference Christopher Yoo again. He developed his fast intution, pattern recognition, etc by doing puzzle rush bud. not playing classical lol.
A few years ago, I learned to shoot a pistol. It is the same: in order to be accurate shooting rapid fire, one must first learn to shoot slow.
Or basketball: you don't learn to hit the basket on the run before you learn to hit it standing still.
Apr 25, 2022
0
#77
CooloutAC wrote:
llama51 wrote:
Not only is it conventional wisdom, but it's just common sense.
If you want to be fast and accurate, you first have to practice being slow and accurate... that's not just chess that's anything.
practice being slow to be fast? Thats the opposite of common sense. To reference Christopher Yoo again. He developed his fast intution, pattern recognition, etc by doing puzzle rush bud. not playing classical lol.
Ok but... are you good at anything in life? If you've never developed a skill you might misunderstand how it works. Yes, slow and accurate during practice is important.
When you do something slow, you are able to do it well, and eventually it becomes muscle memory, then you are able to do it fast.
I remember once a beginner in the forums made a post asking how to get better at bullet. I asked him/her a question: “To be good at bullet you need to apply your knowledge quickly. At your level there is little chess knowledge…so how can you apply it quickly if it’s not there?” (I may not have quoted correctly but that was the gist of it)
Apr 25, 2022
0
#80
Blitz and rapid chess involve a lot of smoke and mirrors, while standard chess is a quest for truth.
http://chessskill.blogspot.com/2008/12/utter-chaos.html
I did. Most people have in modern times. Speed chess and practice exercises. Not only did I learn by playing speedchess. If it wasn't for speedchess I would not have even got interested in chess.
I am the same as Coolout, I got introduced to chess through online blitz. Online blitz and bullet is what I enjoy, it is all I play nowadays and all I ever intend to play.
In the past I would have disagreed with coolout here, but I think he is slowly winning me over.
In my opinion the old days of "never play blitz, don't study openings, slowly work through chess books with a real board, meticulously analyse your classical games with a pencil and paper" are over.
kids these days are getting better by playing thousands of blitz and bullet games online, then relaxing by watching chess on youtube, solving puzzles for hours, drilling openings all day on chessable, doing puzzle rush etc. IMO this is how you improve in 2022
not only do I think that classical chess is on it's way out, but I truly belive that it is possible to become one of the best online blitz and bullet players in the world with no classical chess whatsoever.
I think in the next 5-10 years we will start seeing more and more young players - products of the online chess generation who are getting online ratings of 3000 and above, without ever setting foot in a classical tournament.
Beginners only play blitz, even without clocks, because until they learn something about the game they do not have enough to think about to give them any reason to play slower. You need to be able to see threats in order to be able to invest time analyzing these threats.
Nonetheless, learning these principles through proper instruction and then practicing them in slow games will cement the lessons effectively. Even so, one possible benefit of blitz is that more positions will be seen. The drawback is that fewer of them will be evaluated.
You might be right about the future, but I doubt it.
Most of the beginners reading this are not drilling on Chessable. Those who are may be improving faster.