Covid-19 Discussion (moderated)

"I can understand based on what you're saying that you're for the mandates? "
Its not about me.  That's all you could consider ?
People who are anti-mask and anti-vaxx and anti-mandate - then complain about the mandates and lockdowns that have become more intensely necessary because of their campaigns to interfere with the life-protecting measures.
In a country like Australia - they've been trying very hard to fight Covid.
Government and private sector and citizens.
Result :  their deaths per million from Covid are about one twentieth the deaths per million of the USA.
I don't want to get into US - Australian political discussions -
my point is that when there are campaigns against masks and vaccinations and other lifesaving measures - then results are going to be poorer - while the campaigners then complain about the lockdowns and mandates they have made more intensely necessary by so campaigning.

"Also I see you're talking about immunity, but the immunity acquired after an infection is much more efficient than vaccine immunity"
So what?  That doesn't mean vaccination isn't critical and isn't making a tremendous difference.
That's like saying water is wet - so don't wear a life preserver.  
Vaccination. 
There might be 30 million dead now - if there hadn't been vaccination. 

"Immunity"?   Immunity is a buzz word in the context of Covid.
Its an attempt to make digital A or B out of a very very scalar thing.

Again - reminder:  Unvaccinated upon getting Covid - are 97 times as likely to die of that Covid as those who are fully vaccinated.  
97 times.   That's 9,700 % more likely to die.
With or without plays on the semantics of 'immunity'.  

But the masks and the lockdowns aren't experimental products they're forcing us to inject into our bodies. You say saving our lives but shouldn't anybody be able to choose about whether they want to risk side-effects (nobody can deny they're present), or getting infected while not being vaccinated? You mean people don't want to 'save their lives' and they want to die just to not take the shot because of some belief they have?

" they're forcing us"
I think you already conceded that vaccination isn't compulsory for citizens in most countries.
You're suggesting there's a 'conspiracy'?
That 'they' are forcing 'us' to vaccinate ?
That 'us' - sounds like 'we' used previously.

Maybe I'm going to look up how many countries have actually made vaccination compulsory ...

We're repeating the same stuff over and over only to hit the wall.

What I'm saying is that while vaccines do reduce dangerous cases and decrease deaths like you're saying, some people aren't as vulnerable from COVID as others and no matter what everyone should have the choice on what they want to inject into their bodies, and this not being at the cost of one's job or freedom.

Vaccine immunity is 'critical' but it's temporary and not quite a guarantee of survival + adds risks of side effects.

Look there's no conspiracy theory. It's not that deep. It's just that authorities in countries like Canada, Israel, France, some states in the US, are applying vaccine mandates on their citizens.

Us refers to the citizens, it's quite clear I think, and they: the authorities.

It's not compulsory for citizens in most countries, but you just said you were for the vaccine mandates and that's what we're arguing on.

Here's the map.   
https://www.statista.com/chart/25326/obligatory-vaccination-against-covid-19/
The percentage of area looks Tiny - of countries where vaccination is mandatory.
The biggest such country in population is Indonesia - 
there's over 220 countries in the world.  11 have apparently made vaccination compulsory.  
There's probably a way to copy the map to this forum.

Indonesia has mandatory vaccination.  Maybe they want to save about 10 million people ...   

I don't know where you're getting this from. The truckers movement was a movement against vaccine mandates in Canada.

Maybe we're talking about a different thing. There are countries that indirectly compel their citizens to get the shot when they do the vaccine passports thing, like in Canada, France, you know you need a PCR test twice a week if you're not vaccinated otherwise you can't leave your house and things like that. 

There's over 210 countries where you can refuse to be vaccinated.
Its not about me or 'where I'm getting it from'.
There's something called the internet.
You can click the links I provided and check it yourself.

Regarding organizations requiring vaccinations - as opposed to countries ...
if you walk into a restaurant and they kick you out because you haven't proof of vaccination - does that mean they 'forced' you to vaccinate?
These things aren't digital A or B.
But if 'we' pretend they are - then its a 'discussion' ?
No 'discussion' if 'we' agree they aren't ?

https://www.statista.com/chart/25326/obligatory-vaccination-against-covid-19/

something you don't understand about that link?

There is nothing I don't understand about that link, and I know there's a place called the internet, in this internet I can clearly see protests against a vaccine mandate in Canada, vaccine mandates being applied in Israel, France. How can there be vaccine mandates protests without a vaccine mandate? I will find something for you that proves there are vaccine mandates in these countries I mentioned.

France:

https://www.gouvernement.fr/info-coronavirus/pass-vaccinal

The first point in this link I will translate for you:

Starting from the 14th of march, application of the vaccine mandates will be suspended. So it has been active before the day arrives.

Canada:

https://www.lepoint.fr/monde/covid-19-au-canada-vers-la-fin-du-pass-vaccinal-au-quebec-15-02-2022-2465030_24.php

Translated for you:

Covid-19 in Canada: towards the end of the vaccination pass in Quebec
Strict health measures will be relaxed, which include replacing the PCR test with an antigen test to enter the country.
Canada has announced the relaxation of health restrictions at its borders and in particular the end of the requirement for a PCR test to enter the country, while Quebec will gradually abandon its vaccine passport. “It is time to adjust our approach,” said Jean-Yves Duclos, Federal Minister of Health, Tuesday February 15.

Canada has also lifted its recommendation to avoid travel abroad, when the country has been shaken for more than two weeks by a challenge to health measures. As of February 28, vaccinated travelers will no longer be required to present a negative PCR test when entering Canada. They will have the option of using a rapid antigen test or a molecular test, and may also be randomly tested upon arrival. Fully vaccinated travelers awaiting the result of a random test will no longer have to self-quarantine while awaiting their result.

All the truckers drama protesting against vaccine mandates.

Now let's close this bracket and go back to our point shall we?

"There is nothing I don't understand about that link"

Then why would you ask me where I'm getting information from?
Tempts me to ask you again if there's something you don't understand about the link.
But instead - what about refraining from that question when somebody obviously has been including links?
If you make it a practice to not click -
then maybe that could again cause you to ask 'where?'
Is that what's going on?

I clicked and I posted new links, I also realized we weren't referring to the same thing:

You were referring to authorities OBLIGING people of getting vaccinated.

I am referring to authorities decreasing the freedom of the people who aren't vaccinated.

I could certainly understand not clicking links.
I myself make it a point to refrain from robotically clicking them.
But if that leads to 'where?' ...  

"You were referring to authorities OBLIGING people of getting vaccinated."
Wrong again.  But its okay.
But maybe your question of 'where' is now dropped.
Hopefully.  Would be 'progress'.  

I'm sorry what? I clicked on the link, it doesn't mention Canada, France, Israel, countries where it's well known you can get into some trouble without a vaccine passeport. Maybe they don't take them into consideration because it's not exactly an 'obligation' but but the vaccine passport system indirectly compels you to get the shot because in some places you can't go to work, can't resign from your job etc...

Like you remember the truckers' movement from a few weeks ago right?

What was it for? The abolition of vaccine mandates in Canada. Your link doesn't mention Canada as a country where vaccine mandates are applied. Do you get where I'm coming from now?

You're sorry?  Apology accepted.
Here's your phrase again.  "I don't know where you're getting this from."
Is that all cleared up now?
You've said there's nothing you don't understand about the link.
I'm suggesting - refrain from that 'from' phrase when you see whoever has posted a link.
If you don't intend to click the link - there's always an option ...
mention that you didn't click the link.