This came out this morning:
80 pages of Emails the NY Times obtained (through freedom of information act requests) from health officials from a litany of government agencies about how the US was handling (or not) the outbreak.
Covid-19 Discussion (moderated)
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Apr 14, 2020
0
#463
Apr 14, 2020
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#464
Thee_Ghostess_Lola a écrit :
WHO is to blame because they didn't want to say that it was a pandemic many weeks before because of China pressure!
Countries often have a pandemic response plan that is implemented once a pandemic is declared. But the WHO was left arguing over the semantics of its definition, which delayed these plans being put into action.
Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the director general of the WHO, is the first person to hold the position who doesn’t have a medical degree.
He is a politician.
His tenure was also plagued by scandals. While running to lead the WHO, Tedros was accused by David Nabarro, a medical doctor and prominent global health expert from the United Kingdom, of covering up three cholera epidemics during his time as health minister, which Tedros passed off as cases of “acute watery diarrhea.”
Apr 14, 2020
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#465
Thee_Ghostess_Lola a écrit :
Let’s re-examine Director General Tedros’s handling of the coronavirus pandemic. He praised the Chinese Communist party’s handling of the situation, even as doctors like Li Wenliang were being arrested for warning about the epidemic and as people were being welded in quarantine camps through draconian measures. He also opposed the travel restrictions placed on China, declaring them to be discriminatory. He delayed declaring COVID-19 a pandemic, and finally yielded when it had infected over 116 countries.
Marie-AnneLiz wrote:
Thee_Ghostess_Lola a écrit :
Let’s re-examine Director General Tedros’s handling of the coronavirus pandemic. He praised the Chinese Communist party’s handling of the situation, even as doctors like Li Wenliang were being arrested for warning about the epidemic and as people were being welded in quarantine camps through draconian measures. He also opposed the travel restrictions placed on China, declaring them to be discriminatory. He delayed declaring COVID-19 a pandemic, and finally yielded when it had infected over 116 countries.
Hello, "welded in quarantine camps through draconian measures", did You want the authorities to stay idle and gently ask the people to Go into quarantine? Everyone criticized China at first for how they used the quarantine procedures, claiming this was an infraction to people's right, but then all of the other countries did the exact same thing, and all we talk about is the economic impact, not the restriction of people's right.
Could we stop the double standards Please? If China had not reacted like it did, it would probably have been way worse than it is right now. Yes the government probably downplayed the situation at one point, and they are to blame for shutting down li wenliang, but You can't blame the government for using quarantine measures that now the whole world is using!
Apr 14, 2020
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#467
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdfSJabF2NI
China censors research on CCP virus origin; Wuhan volunteer threatened after speaking about outbreak
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:
congrandolor wrote:
I wonder if the WHO authorities will face a trial after this, or other kind of punishment for their disastrous managment of the pandemic. At least, they should be sacked. Don´t you think so?
so tell us wut they've done wrong. and i mean this w/out emotion. idk where they've gone wrong tho idk enuf about all this either. thx !
They delayed declaring the pandemic for weeks, presumably due to Chinese pressure. They initially said face masks were useless, even when in the countries where wearing them was mandatory had better results delaying the spread of the virus. ¿How many lives were lost due to these negligences?
Apr 15, 2020
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#470
RonaldJosephCote wrote:
Lets remember that during the timeline that you're specifying.....Trump was praising the Chinese. Its a mistake to cut off the money to W.H.O. in the middle of a pandemic. They've been around for 70 yrs and helped us to wipe out polio, and Ebola.
Maybe so, but you have to admit...
WHO is a convenient choice (or rather, last desperate choice) at a scapegoat.
He already tried to blame the Dems and he tried whatabout Obama. There wasn't much left.
Yes, but in 24 hrs, our 1 man clown show that declared himself...."Guardians Of The Galaxy"....has stepped back and now says the governors will decide how their respective states should re-open. Give it 48 hrs.....he'll reverse his decision on WHO also.
My apologies for the distraction of the political post. What I came here for was to post THIS. Everyday, Google is honoring all the people on the front lines. Today its Truckers. 
RonaldJosephCote wrote:
My apologies for the distraction of the political post.
So having admitted it was a political post, which David has made clear is unacceptable, why don't you delete it?
Its only political if you continue to harp on it. Trump has repeadedly praised the W.H.O. If your looking for consistency....this is not the president for that.
Toire wrote:
RonaldJosephCote wrote:
My apologies for the distraction of the political post.
So having admitted it was a political post, which David has made clear is unacceptable, why don't you delete it?
He apologized, but he's essentially critiquing the president of the US for threatening to pull funding from the WHO during the middle of the worst pandemic in a century. It's on topic, and not really that political...the problem is "one man clown show", which will tend to draw purely political posts in reply.
Here's something I posted elsewhere that clarifies things:
I think people are having a hard time drawing a line for themselves between:
"This thing XYZ happened during the outbreak...I disagree with how the government or [specific role/office] dealt with it"
vs.
"[A leader of the right/left] is a [swear word] for acting like/thinking that/telling people ABC, oh, and by the way, [insert offhand tie-in to outbreak]"
A lot of people seem to see these as functionally equivalent and don't see any clear/grasp-able distinction.
When talking about government responses to the outbreak it's scarcely possible to avoid mentioning the people that are implementing policies, making decisions or giving briefings, etc. but what matters is how they are identified and why. If they are talking about the president of a country, a prominent health official, an organization, etc. acting in their role that's cool...but if they are talking about any of those in a manner that primarily is designed to identify them not with their legitimate role in the crisis but with their ideology and who they represent or what they espouse, then it becomes political immediately.
It's also pretty hard to stop people from sliding down that slope without paying attention even when they do understand it, just due to the norms of partisan politics now :/.
So...saying any of the following is clearly across the line:
- "Trump, The GOP, and Fox News are directly to blame for..."
- "Everything happening now is a communist conspiracy because..."
- "Pelosi and the dems are doing it again..."
But these:
- "President Trump made inconsistent statements about [aspects of the outbreak], and I think that it is going to become harmful because people around here are reacting like [something]..."
- "Fauci should/should not be allowed to do interviews outside the WH briefings because..."
- "China's government [took some verifiable action confirmed by legit news sources] today, which causes [some consequence during the outbreak]..."
...are as politics free as you can get while talking about the various events and policies relating to the outbreak.
Apr 15, 2020
0
#476
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKD25397CZQ
What Trump Knew & When He Knew It: NYT on How Trump Ignored COVID-19 Warnings Until It Was Too Late.
btickler wrote:
Toire wrote:
RonaldJosephCote wrote:
My apologies for the distraction of the political post.
So having admitted it was a political post, which David has made clear is unacceptable, why don't you delete it?
He apologized, but he's essentially critiquing the president of the US for threatening to pull funding from the WHO during the middle of the worst pandemic in a century. It's on topic, and not really that political...the problem is "one man clown show", which will tend to draw purely defensive political posts in reply.
Here's something I posted elsewhere that clarifies things:
I think people are having a hard time drawing a line for themselves between:
"This thing XYZ happened during the outbreak...I disagree with how the government or [specific role/office] dealt with it"
vs.
"[A leader of the right/left] is a [swear word] for acting like/thinking that/telling people ABC, oh, and by the way, [insert offhand tie-in to outbreak]"
A lot of people seem to see these as functionally equivalent and don't see any clear/grasp-able distinction.
When talking about government responses to the outbreak it's scarcely possible to avoid mentioning the people that are implementing policies, making decisions or giving briefings, etc. but what matters is how they are identified and why. If they are talking about the president of a country, a prominent health official, an organization, etc. acting in their role that's cool...but if they are talking about any of those in a manner that primarily is designed to identify them not with their legitimate role in the crisis but with their ideology and who they represent or what they espouse, then it becomes political immediately.
It's also pretty hard to stop people from sliding down that slope without paying attention even when they do understand it, just due to the norms of partisan politics now :/.
So in precis, you don't like Trump and welcome criticism of him, despite Forum rules to the contrary.
Toire wrote:
So in precis, you don't like Trump and welcome criticism of him, despite Forum rules to the contrary.
That would be the conclusion of somebody with a lack of understanding who read what I just posted with confirmation bias...because that is not at all what I said.
If I said that I lived in Belarus and that I was worried about the outbreak going on around me, but the president of my country was denying it's existence and promoting hockey games, would that be "political"? Nope, it would just be reporting the factual events taking place. The fact that it might show the president in a bad light does not denote any partisan political motivation for posting. It looks bad because for the average person reading, the actions taken and statements made subjectively look bad. It's not up to the poster to show the president's actions in some "fairer" light, just to ensure they don't intentionally exaggerate or mislead people about anything.
Chess.com's politics and religion policy is for preventing heated arguments, not for hiding the very existence of nations and religions. That's why you will only see mods step in when the thread becomes "too political" or "too religious", and not just editing out every single mention of a political or religious figure or event the minute it is posted.
P.S. If you are trying for precision, there's actually no forum rules on chess.com that address whether I am allowed to like or dislike Trump, or whether I feel welcoming of people who criticize him.
RonaldJosephCote wrote:
Yes, but in 24 hrs, our 1 man clown show that declared himself...."Guardians Of The Galaxy"....has stepped back and now says the governors will decide how their respective states should re-open. Give it 48 hrs.....he'll reverse his decision on WHO also.
Please try to state any changing positions of the president without the extra commentary.
"Yes, Trump has stepped back and now says the governors will decide how their respective states should re-open. Give it 48 hrs.....he'll reverse his decision on WHO also."
...is essentially the same message.
ok. they're saying this CV-19 wuz warned to those looking down from on toppa the hill over thxgiving weekend 2019. china says their 1st case wuz 01.10.20. USA's 1st case wuz 01.20.20. Italys 1st case wuz 01.30.20.
Who's saying that? I know people are trying to track back further to an alternate origin point, but I haven't seen any official claims from any health organizations about November yet.
I am not going to defend the WHO's response to the virus, but I will say that the WHO, much like the United Nations, is a toothless tiger.