Covid-19 Discussion (moderated)

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DiogenesDue
Phoenyx75 wrote:

Interesting. Where are you getting your feedback? This someone you refer to?

A microbiologist working for a company with an FDA approved test happy.png.

DiogenesDue
Phoenyx75 wrote:

Alright. Well, I'll definitely be looking more into the whole issue of the reliability of the tests, keeping what you said in mind. 

I'm sure there will be lots of improvements on existing tests and even more newly approved tests in pretty short order happy.png.

DiogenesDue

More about the validity of Covid-19 testing for those that were following yesterdays sub-topic:

1.The Dr. did have a point about exosomes, but I think he does not know enough about how new PCR assays are developed.  PCR is not perfect because it looks at small regions that may not be unique to the desired target.  That's why a lot of studies are performed (especially in the US) prior to launch:  inclusivity, exclusivity, clinical trials etc.  Emergency Use Authorization (as in the case of SARS-CoV-2 ) allows some studies to be accelerated or bypassed because of the gravity of the epidemic, but still enough tests need to be done to ensure the robustness of the assay.  Labs will also validate the test before using it to ensure that it performs to specifications and correctly.  Good tests will have enough redundancy to avoid false positives or false negatives still nothing is perfect and micro-organisms mutate all the time.
 
2.Having said that, there is some truth about exosomes carrying viral genomes, that is part of their function (they are a bit like garbage trucks and courier services in the cell) in fact they are sought after for a number of therapeutic treatments.  They can also help a virus spread within the host and maybe in the case of the coronavirus they are one of the reasons why some people get so sick while others have no symptoms (exosomes can help the virus or hinder the virus), but that's my own theory.  One challenge is to differentiate between virions and exosomes containing the virus RNA in an infected patient's specimen and so in theory PCR can pick up the RNA from the virus or carried by the exosome.  Still, the host has to be infected for that to happen so it's a moot point.  I bet that doctor read this interesting article:
 
 
3. He should review Koch's Postulates (granted they are not as easy to apply to viruses as to bacteria).  Still scientists have isolated the viruses, grown them in cell lines, shown immune response to virus protein in the patients, done PCR and sequenced the whole virus.  The evidence is there.
 
 
I think it's good to be reassured about the robustness of the creation of new testing.  Even when it has to be done fast and the bureaucracy surrounding the process is flawed.  That being said, health organizations need to do their due diligence when using tests.  It took far, far too long for Italy and Spain to realize that the mass number of testing kits they bought were not effective, and in the case of BioEasy, buying testing kits that are first to market from a private company that has no FDA equivalent watchdogging them absolutely requires that you rigorously test what you are buying...
I actually hope BioEasy suffers the appropriate consequences for selling to governments trying to protect tens of millions of people what is supposed to be fire hoses to put out a blazing fire, but turns out to be tube socks sewn together...
DiogenesDue

US at 300,000 confirmed cases.  Spain has passed Italy in number of confirmed cases.

DiogenesDue
Phoenyx75 wrote:
btickler wrote:

US at 300,000 confirmed cases.  Spain has passed Italy in number of confirmed cases.

One thing- you have mentioned that there are good and bad tests. Do you know if all the tests in the U.S. are good ones?

No, but I am personally fairly confident in the CDC test now (it had problems initially as outlined in the link in the last post), and I am very confident in Cepheid's test (although that is a 15 minute test, so it's designed to be for front-line "quick" usage), and Abbott Lab's test.  I would research others if I needed to, but if they are following the currently modified FDA approval guidelines I would trust them.  I would not trust a kit I got off Amazon or something happy.png.  In fact, all those hundreds of thousands of BioEasy kits that are going to be unusable and should be destroyed may find their way into some grey market and start showing up for sale somewhere...such is human greed.  

Clearly, around the world "confirmed cases" is a number that varies in accuracy, due to testing kits themselves, testing methodologies, governments stepping in to re-classify cases wink.png...etc.  But you could not really expect much better from a worldwide reported number in these circumstance.  The internet is quite awesome in this regard, and it highlights countries that might be fudging numbers pretty readily.  Can't even imagine how bad the info in the early 1900s was...

Khannate1

we would run a mile from anyone we knew had the lurgey , yet the uk govt has its pm and health minister both confirmed lurgeyites . bit weird no that im expected to trust what comes out of their mouths 

DiogenesDue
Khannate1 wrote:

we would run a mile from anyone we knew had the lurgey , yet the uk govt has its pm and health minister both confirmed lurgeyites . bit weird no ?

Much as I do not want people to get the virus, the silver lining of Prince Charles and Boris Johnson getting the virus is that it helps kills off the "the whole virus is a hoax!" conspiracy theory...

RonaldJosephCote

   I posted a link in my thread....Bill Gates is working on some test also, or he's financing some factories to produce the test.

Khannate1

more johnathan 

 

 

Strangemover

Adam Shlesinger of the band Fountains of Wayne has passed away aged 52 after contracting Covid-19. His music was a big part of my teenage playlist, may he rest easy 🤘🎸

https://youtu.be/2y36usNVGhI

 

nighteyes1234
llama44 wrote:

It's an inane comparison in any case because dying of poverty isn't contagious. If one person dying of poverty meant next week 2, then next week 4, 8, and so on, then you could make a comparison.

Yeah we all know...socialism is better than capitalism..because 'we' know how to do it this time. All the previous times were not that socialism it is now. 

'We' being the gurus..Oprah, etc. I personally prefer to have Biden run my life too. Maybe I can meet corn pop too. But at least I get to hear all the ted talkers here on the forum, so life isnt so bad. Is it safe to listen to Tony Robbins yet? Somehow swami Greta is not a guru anymore.

Some were offended by the suggestion of wearing plastic bags. And its hard to admit, but that was off. More woke is everyone wear burkas...and listen to call of the prayer. Excuse me, as our last real president who said it was the sweetest sound on earth. Get rid of the cultists and put in a 3rd term

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJFC1qFCgyA

 

Quasimorphy

I wasn't convinced by the video about exosomes either.  But there's still a lot that's unknown.

 

Here's a doctor who thinks ventilators may be being used improperly and may be making the situation worse.

 

https://youtu.be/k9GYTc53r2o

Quasimorphy

Here's Dr. Kyle-Sidell's other video on this topic.  

 

Quasimorphy

More about this if anyone is interested. Kyle-Sidell's segment begins at around 1:00:50

Confused-psyduck
Itude wrote:
RonaldJosephCote wrote:

   That 21 million figure comes from the cell phones in China. The gov shut down the cell phone towers so naturally 21 million phones went off-line. People are assuming the're dead.

Another possibilty is that they just don't want their people sending pics of what they are doing to them to shut this virus up.

They aint nice !

Is it going to be it? Finding any opportunity to spew hate on the chinese government?

What about we move on..

DiogenesDue
nighteyes1234 wrote:
llama44 wrote:

It's an inane comparison in any case because dying of poverty isn't contagious. If one person dying of poverty meant next week 2, then next week 4, 8, and so on, then you could make a comparison.

Yeah we all know...socialism is better than capitalism..because 'we' know how to do it this time. All the previous times were not that socialism it is now. 

'We' being the gurus..Oprah, etc. I personally prefer to have Biden run my life too. Maybe I can meet corn pop too. But at least I get to hear all the ted talkers here on the forum, so life isnt so bad. Is it safe to listen to Tony Robbins yet? Somehow swami Greta is not a guru anymore.

Some were offended by the suggestion of wearing plastic bags. And its hard to admit, but that was off. More woke is everyone wear burkas...and listen to call of the prayer. Excuse me, as our last real president who said it was the sweetest sound on earth. Get rid of the cultists and put in a 3rd term

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJFC1qFCgyA

Welcome to some other thread.

Socialism?  Burkas?  Oprah?  Tony Robbins?  Greta Thunberg?  How many "off topic" topics can somebody possibly squeeze into one post without a single mention of the actual outbreak? wink.png

DiogenesDue
Confused-psyduck wrote:

Is it going to be it? Finding any opportunity to spew hate on the chinese government?

What about we move on..

I'll keep my eye on this.  Calling out other governments for their actions/policies is not out of bounds, but if I feel someone is just repeatedly bashing a particular country without anything new to say, I'll stop it.

llama44
Haverumwilltravel wrote:

The US will come out better than most other countries. The President has done an awesome job in this time of crisis despite the slings and arrows that he has had thrown at him.. 

Meanwhile the facts.

The US's rate of infection is faster than any other country, plus right now we have the highest number of people infected.

DiogenesDue

I was going to block Itude, since he would have had to have read my latest post before then posting exactly what I said would be out of bounds wink.png...hopefully clear heads for all of us will prevail tomorrow.

DiogenesDue

I'm sure the new face mask guidelines and Trump's speech about them are going to be discussed...here's an article on that:

https://news.yahoo.com/tensions-persist-between-trump-medical-141306900.html 

Note the Yahoo News link for what is actually a NY Times article...aggregated news in action happy.png.

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