Forums

If the universe requires a creator then the creator should require a creator = religion is made-up

Sort:
power_2_the_people

The evolution theorist couldn't have known that people like Hitler would exploit Darwin's ideas in such horrifying ways: the “scientific” strand of racism

http://www.salon.com/2014/04/19/charles_darwins_tragic_error_hitler_evolution_racism_and_the_holocaust/


''Right-wing Social Darwinism produced several ideas that were attractive and convenient to the ruling classes of Europe and North America, and especially to Germany’s warlike and antidemocratic elites. The most important idea may have been “struggle,” the notion that all relations between individuals and between nations were defined by a merciless battle for survival. Struggle followed inevitably from the laws of nature as discovered by Darwin, and therefore had no moral significance.  The Christian injunctions to “love your neighbor” and “love your enemies”  had no place in the animal  kingdom;  neither should they control the behavior  of human beings...''

''At the Nationalists’ 1931 convention, their leader, Alfred Hugenberg, declared that the German people could  gain “freedom and space” only through “energetic  self-help,” and not through a “hypocritical pacifism.” Hugenberg demanded a colonial empire for Germany  in Africa, as well as new land for settlement  of Germany’s “vigorous race” in the East, contending that “the reconstruction of the East, far beyond Germany’s old borders, is only possible by Germany.” “Energetic self-help” was a euphemism for war, praised in unmistakably Darwinian terms.''


Raspberry_Yoghurt
power_2_the_people wrote:
The evolution theorist couldn't have known that people like Hitler would exploit Darwin's ideas in such horrifying ways: the “scientific” strand of racism http://www.salon.com/2014/04/19/charles_darwins_tragic_error_hitler_evolution_racism_and_the_holocaust/


''Right-wing Social Darwinism produced several ideas that were attractive and convenient to the ruling classes of Europe and North America, and especially to Germany’s warlike and antidemocratic elites. The most important idea may have been “struggle,” the notion that all relations between individuals and between nations were defined by a merciless battle for survival. Struggle followed inevitably from the laws of nature as discovered by Darwin, and therefore had no moral significance.  The Christian injunctions to “love your neighbor” and “love your enemies”  had no place in the animal  kingdom;  neither should they control the behavior  of human beings...''

''At the Nationalists’ 1931 convention, their leader, Alfred Hugenberg, declared that the German people could  gain “freedom and space” only through “energetic  self-help,” and not through a “hypocritical pacifism.” Hugenberg demanded a colonial empire for Germany  in Africa, as well as new land for settlement  of Germany’s “vigorous race” in the East, contending that “the reconstruction of the East, far beyond Germany’s old borders, is only possible by Germany.” “Energetic self-help” was a euphemism for war, praised in unmistakably Darwinian terms.''


Not sure why you are posting that, but it illustrates my point before.

I don't think Darwin himself thought in "superior" and "inferioir" species. He describes for instance the Galapagos birds, and says they diverges because they adapt to the island they ended up upon.

Birds on island A maybe have a long beak because it is good to eat the stuff on that island, while the birds on island B has a short beak because it is good for the stuff there.

It doesnt mean that long or short beak is "superior", its best on island A and that is that. Like it is best to wear a rain coat when it rains and a t-thirt when it is sunny, and noone in their right mind would claim the rain coat is "superior" and then wear it all the time.

Anyway, yes, a bunch of morons went all haywire on all this superior/inferior stuff anyway. It was a big thing in the beginning of the 20th century.

And it MIGHT exist in a line or two somewhere in Darwin's work, even though I doubt it.

Anyway, today this is TOTALLY removed from modern biology. If you ask an evolutionary biologist to please can he show you a "superior" species he will laugh at you. If he even understands what you mean. No species is better or worse than any other, they are just adapted to different niches, and all species are likely to eventuallly go extinct as ecology changes over millions of years.

Raspberry_Yoghurt

“Energetic self-help” was a euphemism for war, praised in unmistakably Darwinian terms.''

It's not a Darwinian term BTW. Methinks the blog writer didnt read a line of Darwin and is just making up what terms he things Darwin used. He probaly means that it is a SOCIAL darwinian term, and writing sloppily so he forgets the important SOCIAL.

The term was created maybe by some German political social darwinian writer? Or maybe by Herbert Spencer?

power_2_the_people

what is neo-darwinism?

Raspberry_Yoghurt

It's a later version of evolution theory than Darwin's. You can google it.

Darwin didnt know about genes, he didnt know the information for eye color for instance was like a "packet" or information so you either get blue eyes or not.

He thought the parents hereditary information was mixed like mixing a cup of blue water with a cup of brown water.

It cause him all sorts of problems, because if 1 parent had blue eyes and the other brown eyes, the child should get a sort of brown/blue eye color. Which doesnt happen off course lol.

So a big change was dumping Darwins wrong ideas of how heredtary transferring worked and replacing it with Mendel, and then later DNA.

There's been other changes since then, they change stuff all the time. They also added for bacteria that they can exchange genes across species. Darwin had zero idea this was possible, he didnt even know genes existed.

Raspberry_Yoghurt
alex-rodriguez wrote:

"Yeah to me as a European it is baffling that so many americans are anti-science in a bad way."

It must be nice to live in a country where people accept scientific facts instead of complaining about it. It's really bad here in Idiot America. The anti-science insanity is out of control.

Not all people do off course, but there are much much less anti-science weirdos here.

50% being anti-evolution is just crazy for me :) It's really WTF!

Raspberry_Yoghurt

Like you imagine it could be like that in Afghanistan, or some countries with no education and nobody can read and write, but not about USA.

The_Ghostess_Lola

Goodnite my luvd ones. It's been a beautiful Sunday....Smile....sleepytyme....

power_2_the_people

the vast majority of practicing biologists and genetic scientists remain committed  neo-darwinists, according to my dictionary.you cannot google it but you can read this book:

 

Raspberry_Yoghurt

Seems like a cool book http://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/history/history-ideas-and-intellectual-history/darwinism-war-and-history-debate-over-biology-war-origin-species-first-world-war

I'm not sure what you mean with your post?

I think maybe you are confusing neo-darwinism, which is a biological theory that has absolutely nothing to do with wars and history, with some version of social darwinism? But i am not sure what you mean.

And anyway I dont think the term neo-darwinism is very important for scientists today. I hung out a lot with biologists, i worked in a biological department for a couple of years, and never heard then mention the word, ever. They just call it evolution.

If that book gave you the wrong impression that biologist are bloodthirsty warmongerers you can read for instance some of Stephen Jay Gould's stuff. He's leftwing and wrote some scorching criticisms of the social darwinism "superior species" stuff. He wrote an article arguing (for fun) that bacteria are vastly superior compared to anything else :)

power_2_the_people

im not taking side. just found this and that; idk what it is

"The direction of evolution on the whole is toward more complex actualities, resulting from God's basic creative purpose, which is the evocation of actualities with greater and greater enjoyment. [. . . .] To maximize beauty is to maximize enjoyment. God's purpose, then, can be described as the aim toward maximizing either beauty or enjoyment. It is on the basis of these criteria of intrinsic value that the evolutionary process can be viewed as in part a product of divine providence." — John B. Cobb, Jr. and David Ray Griffin
Process Theology: An Introductory Expositi

 

Elaine Morgan says we evolved from aquatic apes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwPoM7lGYHw#t=23

 

The evolving story of human evolution | Melanie Chang | TEDxVictoria

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLXPi0Jha5o

 

The shift from Darwinian to bioengineered evolution: Paul Wolpe at TEDxPeachtree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkS-V_BzPO8

Where did God come from? What do the bible stories really tell us? Who or what was Jesus Christ? This book challenges everything we think we know about the nature of religion. • The ancient fertility cult at the heart of Christianity • The living power of cultic rites and symbols • The sacred mushroom as the emblem and embodiment of divinity • The secret meaning of biblical myths • The language of religion that links us to our ancestors The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross sets out John Allegro's quest through a family tree of languages to find the truth about where Christianity came from.

FRENCHBASHER

"the Creator should require a creator  POST ONE

WHY ? 2.5 billions say yes, 2.5 billions say no.

That is just human thinking, Creator , if existing, may exist with some infinite chain of creators, first solution to the dilemna.

Second solution : FIDES, truth in latin, fidelity etc ... which supposes men accept something exists called creator without understanding it. It gives religion... and sometimes wars too.

ReligionS are made-up, certainly, but who made them ?

The Creator or the creature ? since 5000 years nobody knows precisely.

Just a joke now, serious thinking may include smiley too, smiley's people aren't we ? Laughing :

For instance we accept FIDE exists without having met her and/or understanding every decision about FIDE.  And Chess is our touch, our link, our tie, our .....religion ?

2travel

Not chess is my religion, but chess is my idolatry 

FRENCHBASHER
2travel a écrit :

Not chess is my religion, but chess is my idolatry 

Sealed interesting nuance what is idol for one is God for enemy.

(Sun Tse, circa 2500 before you)

power_2_the_people

The Delfonics: Hey Love

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBSERoY2HS8

power_2_the_people

i was there before mickey lollllllll

SomeoneYouKnew

There cannot be infinite regress. We are here, alive. Thus out of something we were made. If continually regressing then we would not be here as we are infinitely away in creation.

power_2_the_people

The Dramatics - The Devil Is Dope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-oHwBkZAvs

FRENCHBASHER

post one : "IF the universe requires a creator ...

Well, but suppose the universe IS the creator  pb solved.

Suppose the time is just invention from the creature , the universe requires nothing, the universe IS, yesterday, tomorrow are fictious during a life time, nothing more. Pb solved.

FRENCHBASHER

I agree with you :     Science doesn't need creator. 838.

But beside Science exist other approaches , because in ZEN philosophy (for instance) , one or two billions people think there cannot be science YIN without incon-science YANG. nb  : ZEN is NO religion.

Rabelais (the greatest doctor and scientific in Renaissance, with some relaxe personal religion he got problems for that) said : "Science without conscience is the Ruin".

Beside Science they may think exist sthg else, even Jean Paul Sartre, believing in NO god, said :"there is something to say (-disible) , there is something NOT to say (-indisible trad)." (Bing and nothingness best seller, Nobel Prize).

This forum topic has been locked