Is 'benefit fraud' a serious problem for Britain?

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Avatar of ANOK1

its been a widescale attack on the poor since 2005 , 11 years of making the weakest in society pay the price for bankers greed causing worldwide recession ,

ive given up on ever getting justice , all the facts are there re how much tax evasion goes on how little benefit fraud there actually is ,

do the media and the politicians think that being silent will mean they can get away with it ?

no justice but there is us and when i see the growth in those wanting a fairer society i have hope

Avatar of SaintGermain32105

Charles Ponzi (March 3, 1882 – January 18, 1949) was an Italian businessman and con artist in the U.S. and Canada. His aliases include Charles Ponci, Carlo and Charles P. Bianchi. Born and raised in Italy, he became known in the early 1920s as a swindler in North America for his money-making scheme. He promised clients a 50% profit within 45 days, or 100% profit within 90 days, by buying discounted postal reply coupons in other countries and redeeming them at face value in the United States as a form of arbitrage. In reality, Ponzi was paying early investors using the investments of later investors, a practice known as "robbing Peter to pay Paul." While this swindle predated Ponzi by several years, it became so identified with him that it now bears his namesake. His scheme ran for over a year before it collapsed, costing his "investors" $20 million.

Charles Ponzi was born Carlo Pietro Giovanni Guglielmo Tebaldo Ponzi in Lugo, Italy, in 1882. He told The New York Times that he had come from a well-to-do family in Parma, Italy. He took a job as a postal worker early on, but soon was accepted into the University of Rome La Sapienza. His friends considered the university a "four-year vacation," and he was inclined to follow them around to bars, cafés, and the opera.


Fraud and fairer society

Avatar of Firstplay

These days Ponzi would be considered an entrepeneur!  We have casino capitalism which operates with the same morals.

Avatar of Firstplay

I posted this on the 'Trident' thread but it's more appropriate here:

 

...and I forgot to mention the shocking waste of our taxes spent on people sponging from society.  £15.1 million is spent maintaining Royal palaces. Buckingham Palace has 240 bedrooms but the bedroom tax won't apply to this family receiving benefits. 

Or how about Lord Freud, this fella has £1.9 million mansion but he only pays three times the amount of council tax of someone who lives in a bedsit. This particular Lord, the welfare minister, I think is the same fella who introduced the bedroom tax that has plunged an estimated 95 thousand families into poverty.  I don't remember seeing that on the front page of the cheap newspapers.  Funny how the blame for Govt cuts is always aimed at the poorest isn't it?  And some people actually believe it!!

Avatar of Pulpofeira

Catholic church here doesn't pay immobiliary taxes. No big deal though, since its patrimony is so small...

Avatar of ANOK1

pulpofeira hi , did the spanish church declare all the stolen aztec gold  the source of much of its wealth or is that just not talked about ?

Avatar of Ghostliner

You can say whatever you like - so long as you honour the rules outlined in post #1 you won't be blocked.

Avatar of ANOK1

is this a sign saying wet paint ? how do i know its wet without touching it ? oh it is , grrrr anyone got any turpentine ?

Avatar of Pulpofeira
ANOK1 escribió:

pulpofeira hi , did the spanish church declare all the stolen aztec gold  the source of much of its wealth or is that just not talked about ?

Hmm, I wouldn't say the stolen Aztec (and Inca) gold is the source of much of Spanish church wealth, it was mainly used to pay royalty debts to European banks and to make easier the path to the title of Sir for certain English pirate. They had enough with squeezing us proletarians across the centuries.

Avatar of ANOK1

yeah raleigh was a thief in ermine wasnt he ,although Spain did gain from its invasion financially too sending back more ships full of plunder than he could pirate

good point though and i agree , britain certainly gained from the destruction of meso america too

Avatar of Ghostliner
mackytom wrote:
Ghostliner wrote:

You can say whatever you like - so long as you honour the rules outlined in post #1 you won't be blocked.

Hate to say this ghostie, but I have to take my hat off to you. I blocked you on the Trump topic and you're still managing to get through, plus you are being very magnamanous by not blocking me.  Salute.............. you bastard

It's not a competition and unlike you, I don't play tit-for-tat.

Strictly speaking your comment violates rules 1 (personally abusive) and 2 (disruptive) but I can appreciate the complimentary tone so I'll let it pass.

Avatar of Pulpofeira

Spain did gain more than anyone could imagine, it's simply we are so good messing things we managed to did it on our own country too.

Avatar of Pulpofeira

Jelou! Long time no see.

Avatar of Pulpofeira

Sir Francis Drake!

Avatar of Nikprit

If you take the UK govt. estimated 'overall fraud' figures, then benefit fraud is the second lowest type of fraud, representing just 2% of overall fraud in the UK per year. 

So the answer to the OP question as a statistical fact is NO, as it is the second lowest type of fraud. 

This inevitably leads to the question of why is something that is the 2nd type of lowest fraud in the UK given such a high profile. 

The Mobilization of Hatred

...........It is still a malicious, misleading, and destructive process. As Chip Berlet and Matthew Lyons have explained, scapegoating is not a dispassionate attempt to understand the real sources of society’s problems, but a tactic that inevitably relies on the encouragement and exploitation of dangerous emotions. “Scapegoating [is] the social process whereby the hostility and grievances of an angry, frustrated group are directed away from the real causes of a social problem onto a target group demonized as malevolent wrongdoers.”16 Anger and demonization are in integral part of any scapegoating strategy. It relies on the mobilization of popular hatred against its target.

 

(though the above is a US article - I am pointing towards the 'use of scapegoating as a political/govt technique' for deflecting and directing emotions away from real issues and onto minority groups i.e someone to blame.)

ref:

http://www.cas.org.uk/features/myth-busting-real-figures-benefit-fraud

http://www.governmentisgood.com/articles.php?aid=22&p=5

Avatar of Ghostliner

A characteristically powerful and erudite contribution from a fellow sea-dog. The man speaks the truth. In my opinion.

Avatar of Firstplay

Well explained Nikprit.  Sadly, it works for them.  On a few threads here a number of people just can't seem to grasp the scale of corruption at the top and the tiny % of benefit fraud by those at the bottom.  It's a though they want to believe the Govt on this issue, despite them knowing how bad they are in other areas.  It's such an old well-used trick that I thought everyone would be onto it by now.

I was talking with someone this morning who was sanctioned a couple of years ago for a minor 'offence'. He lost his benefits for six months, winning his appeal to get then back after several weeks. He'd had to survive by rooting through the skips outside supermarkets, after having sussed out when they threw out the 'out of date' food.  He was appalled that he'd been reduced to such levels.

Macky, we can have discussion without insults.  We can agree to disagree on some issues.  We can have different opinions on various topics and we can maybe learn things from each other on those differing viewpoints without falling out or threatening each other.

Fb is barred from this thread I'm glad to say as he's a proffessional troll with an extremely bad attitude, and is well known for it, and his different names and personalities.  He seems to have a problem with his head and presumably is why GL has ensured that this thread will run smoothly. 

You'll note that I didn't block anyone on the Trident thread, not even fb depite his incoherrant ramblings.  There's no need for unpleasantness or childishness.  Most don't respond 'in kind' as we refuse to lower ourselves to fb's insane rantings. I'll be happy to discuss things with you in future with these parameters.

Avatar of Ghostliner
Firstplay wrote:

Well explained Nikprit.  Sadly, it works for them.  On a few threads here a number of people just can't seem to grasp the scale of corruption at the top and the tiny % of benefit fraud by those at the bottom.  It's a though they want to believe the Govt on this issue, despite them knowing how bad they are in other areas.  It's such an old well-used trick that I thought everyone would be onto it by now.

I was talking with someone this morning who was sanctioned a couple of years ago for a minor 'offence'. He lost his benefits for six months, winning his appeal to get then back after several weeks. He'd had to survive by rooting through the skips outside supermarkets, after having sussed out when they threw out the 'out of date' food.  He was appalled that he'd been reduced to such levels.

Macky, we can have discussion without insults.  We can agree to disagree on some issues.  We can have different opinions on various topics and we can maybe learn things from each other on those differing viewpoints without falling out or threatening each other.

Fb is barred from this thread I'm glad to say as he's a proffessional troll with an extremely bad attitude, and is well known for it, and his different names and personalities.  He seems to have a problem with his head and presumably is why GL has ensured that this thread will run smoothly. 

You'll note that I didn't block anyone on the Trident thread, not even fb depite his incoherrant ramblings.  There's no need for unpleasantness or childishness.  Most don't respond 'in kind' as we refuse to lower ourselves to fb's insane rantings. I'll be happy to discuss things with you in future with these parameters.

That's a key point.

It's reminiscent of religious zeal and explains the fiercely rigid, unbending, dogmatic outlook. I feel that the reason so many people get pulled in this direction is because it makes them feel comfortable and good about themselves.

It's one of the pay-offs you get for submitting to authority.

Avatar of Ghostliner

The claims you've made about what's legal/illegal aren't really open to dispute and, as far as I know, nobody does dispute them.

What you've presented here though doesn't really answer the argument that Firstplay and others have raised about the comparative scale of these, different, forms of fraud and how comparatively damaging they are to society as a whole, it doesn't answer the point raised in #42 about scapegoating and mobilisation, and nor does it answer the question raised in the title of this thread.

To use an analogy: equating benefit fraud with corporate theft and tax fraud is like comparing a broken fingernail with a gaping chest wound.

We all know what you do for a living and I'll jump on anyone who judges you for it here, but I'm asking you to put your own preconceptions (many of which I suspect arise from your job role) aside and deal with the big picture. 

If you can't do this you're getting kicked out, not because I disagree with your emphasis but because it demonstrates that you've got nothing meaningful to say - it's as simple as that.

Avatar of Sitting-Duck

income tax is illegal

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