nirvana & meditation

  No, it's good to question. Nirvana as a concept has little meaning, right? So we can focus rather on the facts of our lives, not what we think about them, not on our opinion about facts.

  The problem is that we're trapped in opinions of facts, so they are being missed. Yet here we, as mankind, are: trapped in opinions. That is the starting point.

   We wouldn't 'continually be meditating', in the absence of any practice, Tom. The absence of practice doesn't mean it's happening automatically.

  That's what I was asking, how does it happen? It cannot be forced upon, like through practice: it's a very delicate thing, it cannot be forced upon. It doesn't accept any conditions, 'pre-requisites', which would still be forcing it--it needs freedom, not cohersion. No cultivation is possible, it cannot be spread around either.

  It's very, very delicate.

Troy #382...Nirvana as a concept has alot of meaning.  No different than any other concept.  Things (and no-things) start as a concept and we move in that direction to realize the concept.  If you don't know the concept exists you will not try to realize it.  I agree that we have opinions but not sure if we are trapped in them.  Contemplation on our opinions may lead us out of the trap of opinions into the openess of fact-based living.  The concept of Nirvana has lead ga-zill-ions of people into self-analyzation which has helped to improve the quality of lives.  (I do realize that 'quality' is just a concept.)

I read a bit about Buddhism while talking on my what are we threads and there was talk of non attachment .

I suppose some of you guys might say meditation is about not being attached to thoughts .

This Buddhist idea of non attachment seemed to extent to our spouses .

Jesus said something similar . When a disciple wanted to stay with his ailing father, leave the dead to the dying .

I guess I just wonder whether or not it's spiritually sensible to attach to a person .

I am thinking that attachment has biological roots.  I may be wrong there but that just my opinion.  D'oh!

Don't tell my wife I asked that !

Ok, when I meet her tonight I won't say a word.

Sure biological but we can rise above that no?

Anyway the article I read said these Buddhist guys did actually get married but had a somewhat unconventional idea of how they related towards their wives in terms of being betrothed to them . I'm wondering if they told their wives .

I'm not sure I know all the details . I guess something like nikprit talks about . This idea of accepting everything is temporary and in transition.

I know Troy talks about the truth as being fluid too.

Oh xming you are in trouble now . You'd better be able to levitate my friend !

   'Improvement' is a relative term. It's still in the area where suffering resides. No solution there.

  That was the point: this is not a concept to be realized--a mental construct first, then its actualization.

   There is absolutely no mental construct for the present moment.

  And all mental constructs are born from a mind that is trapped in a different world, a world which doesn't have a clue about the existence of the other, so any mental construct born from such a world/mind is false.

  That's why it's not a matter of realization: this mind has no clue about the other one.

tom, you said     "Sure biological but we can rise above that no?"
Sure, you don't have to eat when the body says eat.  You don't have to feel pain when hit with a hammer.  You don't have to sleep and surely you don't have to die but everyone does.  If the 'rise above' means change our reaction to biological impulses, then it depends on the impulse, i guess. 

When I was really young, I thought everything was spiritual.  Now i think its almost all biological.  I am toying with the CONCEPT that even consciousness has biological roots, not spiritual roots.  Not sure yet.

Troy 383.
So my friend how does it happen ?

You just let it ?

troy #391...Everything is relative except Nirvana.  Go ask the Buddha.  If you are in this world, you are suffering to some extent or you have or you will.  It is the nature of this world.  That is what the Buddha found under the Bodhi Tree and that lead to (ultimately) the seeking of Nirvana.  AND There is a mental construct for the present moment;  It is the present moment.  Its all mind.  Nirvana is not mind. 

Xming 392 .

Believe me I'm thinking about just the same sorts of things and I'm not sure either .

You know in lift there are temptations . For example .

I'm jogging on the beach and I run past an attractive lady .

Part of me is saying yeah let's check her out !

But you know another says actually that's not appropriate .

And gradually we can improve our behaviour and act more as we know it's fitting to be .

I think sometimes of that film Groundhog Day .

In the movie bill murray's character makes mistakes but living the same day over and over and over again gradually perfects himself .

Sometimes I think we have these spiritual Nobel truths in mind and over time we gradually train the animal that we are to behave .

Spirit over flesh if you like .

By the way certainly life is more comfortable when our physical needs are met and even better when they are met well !

In lift ? Predictive text . In life of course

Thank you by the way md . Two minutes meditation a day sure sounds manageable

I think sometimes you have to draw a line . Like the Christians will say God free me from this sin but you know we can say okay this stops here and act like the person we think we ought to be rather than the animal we are .

To be honest I think the trick is absolute abstinence .

For example if you are dieting and you have that slither of chocolate cake then boy you are in trouble . That's the tip of the iceberg .

Anyway getting back to the topic my basic point was that some people believe that just as you oughtn't attach to a thought, so it's the same with a person .

     That was the point: no suffering in this world. To no extent whatsoever. Otherwise it's all a sham, a trick, why bother? Just keep going, then die and that's it. Such a life would have no meaning.

   But having no conflict whatsoever is possible, not as a concept to be realized, but as a fact.

  Nirvana as a concept is meaningless. As a fact, it's different, but then one would throw away the concept. The only reason to retain the concept is when one wants to get there, to achieve it--something which is not possible.

tom #395...You have opened a whole cans of worms with this one.  When I see someone attractive, I look.  That's what I do.  I love seeing beauty.  I look at beautiful trees also.  Etc.  No moral qualms about it.  And what is appropriate is up to the culture, isn't it?  Some cultures think it appropriate to stone someone to death for looking at someone at the beach.  Spirit over flesh?  Isn't that just culture or are there some behaviors which are universal?  Tell, tell, tell.