Psychopathic Traits in Movie Characters - Chess Forums

awesomechess1729

Nov 16, 2015

0

#1

In the Movie Reviews forum some other members and I were having a discussion about the new Bond movie Spectre and I noted how James Bond as a character seems to have many psychopathic traits. So I scored him on the Hare checklist (a list of 20 traits seen in psychopaths that are used to diagnose psychopathy in actual people), in which 0 means not applicable, 1 means partially applicable or ambiguous information, and 2 means applicable. He scored pretty high : a 31/40 (from my opinion, some people on the forum said it should be higher) (1 above the cutoff line for psychopathy in the US, 6 points above in the UK), so I wondered what other movie characters would score high on the Hare checklist. Here are my analyzes of several movie characters according the the Hare Checklist (the checklist and information I just posted is from the Hare Checklist's Wikipedia page).

James Bond:

**Psychopathy Checklist-Revised: Factors, Facets, and Items[12]**
Factor 1	Factor 2	Other items
Facet 1: Interpersonal Glibness/superficial charm - 2, he gets all the ladies easily and wears a suit constantly. Grandiose sense of self-worth - 1, he kind of is a little narcisstic, but that might just be because he's a superspy. Pathological lying - 1, he's a spy, so it is technically his job. Cunning/manipulative-2, Totally, and he seems to enjoy it. Facet 2: Affective Lack of remorse or guilt- 2, Obviously, he kills people with no guilt all the time. Emotionally shallow-2, doesn't really express a range of emotions. Callous/lack of empathy- 2, no real empathy at all. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions - 2, all of his actions are justified in the name of "good", but he has no reponsibility regardless. Total Score: 31/40	Facet 3: Lifestyle Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom- 1, he is always in some sort of peril/chase related thing, but he doesn't seem to get that bored. Parasitic lifestyle - 2, he does feed off of a lot of people including his girls. Lack of realistic, long-term goals- 1, he does treat life like he will die at any moment, but maybe that's just because that belief is essentially justified. Impulsivity - 2, Again, this is pretty obvious. He just has sex and drinks and gets into trouble whenever he feels like it. Irresponsibility - 2, As discussed before, he doesn't take any reponsibility for his actions. Facet 4: Antisocial Poor behavioral controls - 2, again he's extremely impulsive. Early behavioral problems - 1, he did lose his parents early and had problems because of this, but there's no real backstory (or at least as seen in Spectre) to suggest he had that many early behavior problems. Juvenile delinquency - 0, no real evidence for this. Revocation of conditional release - 0, Again no real evidence for this. Criminal versatility- 2, definitely, which is why he's such a good spy	Many short-term marital relationships-2, He lost his wife as explained in a backstory, and then he just has no relationships that could be described as "long-term". Promiscuous sexual behavior-2, Totally. I'd give this one a 10 if possible. He also drinks somewhat recklessly.

awesomechess1729

Nov 16, 2015

0

#2

Tony Stark/Iron Man:

Total Score: 16/40

**Psychopathy Checklist-Revised: Factors, Facets, and Items^[12]**
Factor 1	Factor 2	Other items Many short-term marital relationships-0, not really, especially considering his long-term relationships with Pepper Potts (did they ever get married? I forgot.) Promiscuous sexual behavior- 2, definitely
Facet 1: Interpersonal Glibness/superficial charm - 2, definitely has a sense of superficial charm to him Grandiose sense of self-worth- 2, he appears very arrogant, probably at least due to his inventions, etc. but overly self-centered all the same Pathological lying - 1, he only lies when working on secret projects Cunning/manipulative - 0, not really applicable Facet 2: Affective Lack of remorse or guilt - 0,not applicable Emotionally shallow - 0, not really applicable Callous/lack of empathy - 0, not really applicable Failure to accept responsibility for own actions- 2, not really reponsible for when he makes mistakes	Facet 3: Lifestyle Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom - 2, easily gets bored but that might be just be because he is a genius Parasitic lifestyle - 0, not really applicable Lack of realistic, long-term goals- 0, not applicable, in fact it's just Impulsivity - 2, he certainly seems impulsive and despite his high IQ,he doesn't think things through sometimes (like letting Ultron get too smart in the latest Avengers movie) Irresponsibility- 2, again is irresponsible Facet 4: Antisocial Poor behavioral controls - 1, wouldn't say "poor controls" but he is impulsive Early behavioral problems- 0, doesn't seem applicable especially as a child prodigy his backstory suggests better early behavior than most Juvenile delinquency - 0, again, no evidence Revocation of conditional release - 0, no evidence Criminal versatility- 0, no evidence

awesomechess1729

Nov 16, 2015

0

#3

I'll do a few more when I'm not so tired. Feel free to contribute or comment on my analyzes. I'm going to do a few Matrix characters next (Neo, The Merovingian, and Agent Smith).

awesomechess1729

Nov 16, 2015

0

#4

Chess_is_my_Heaven wrote:

awesomechess1729 wrote:

I'll do a few more when I'm not so tired. Feel free to contribute or comment on my analyzes. I'm going to do a few Matrix characters next (Neo, The Merovingian, and Agent Smith).

i think your correct but i also think the Anti hero movement when they wanted heroes to be edgy

Hollywood images of psychopaths have shifted over time as this understanding has changed, and as real-life cases came to light from serial killer Ed Gein to Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer.

Overall, portrayals have gotten more realistic over time, Leistedt and Linkowski report in the January Journal of Forensic Sciences. Instead of giggling killers with facial tics, at least a few of today’s portrayals have more depth, giving a “compelling glimpse into the complex human psyche,” they write.

Here are a few of the best and worst potrayals from Leistedt and Linkowski’s paper.

The frighteningly realistic: 1. Anton Chigurh, No Country for Old Men(2007)

This contract killer hauls around a bolt pistol attached to tank of compressed air, a handy tool both for shooting out door locks and for shooting people in the head. Leistedt says Chigurh is his favorite portrayal of a psychopath. “He does his job and he can sleep without any problems.In my practice I have met a few people like this,” he says. In particular, Chigurh reminds him of two real-life professional hit men who he interviewed. “They were like this: cold, smart, no guilt, no anxiety, no depression.”

Diagnosis*: Primary, classic/idiopathic psychopath

2. Hans Beckert, M(1931)

This child-murdering character broke with most portrayals of psychopaths at the time, depicting an outwardly normal man with a compulsion to kill. This is “a substantially more realistic depiction of what would eventually be known today as a sexually violent predator most likely suffering from psychosis,” Leistedt and Linkowski write.

Diagnosis: Secondary, pseudopsychopath, additional diagnosis of psychosis

3. Henry, Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer(1991)

In this film about guy who likes to find new ways to kill people, the researchers write, “the main, interesting theme is the chaos and instability in the life of the psychopath, Henry’s lack of insight, a powerful lack of empathy, emotional poverty, and a well-illustrated failure to plan ahead.”

Diagnosis: Primary, classic/idiopathic psychopath

Scary, but not realistic: 1. Tommy Udo, Kiss of Death(1947)

A great example of an early portrayal of a “madman” as psychopath. The Udo character was famous for his creepy chuckle, and legend has it that actor Richard Widmark was later asked repeatedly to record the laugh on blank record albums.

2. Norman Bates, Psycho(1960)

After the 1957 arrest of real-life serial killer Ed Gein, a case involving cannibalism, necrophilia and a troubled relationship with his mother, horror films about serial murder took off. Norman Bates was inspired in part by Gein, launching a genre showing misfits with usually sexual motivations to kill. This kind of behavior became closely linked to psychopathy, but Gein was more likely psychotic, meaning out of touch with reality. Psychosis, which is a completely different diagnosis from psychopathy, often involves delusions and hallucinations.

3. Hannibal Lecter, Silence of the Lambs(1991)

Yes, he scares the bejesus out of me, too. But Lecter’s almost superhuman intelligence and cunning are just not typical among, well, anyone, let alone psychopaths. Lecter is a perfect example of the “elite psychopath” that became popular in the 1980s and 1990s. This calm, in-control character type has sophisticated tastes and manners (think Chianti and jazz),exceptional skill in killing and a vain and “almost catlike demeanor,” the researchers write, adding, “These traits, especially in combination, are generally not present in real psychopaths.”

The new release The Wolf of Wall Street may be part of another movie-psychopath trend, the “successful psychopath.” Leistedt hasn’t seen the film yet, but he says the story of real-life con man Jordan Belfort should make for an interesting portrayal. “These guys are greedy, manipulative, they lie, but they’re not physically aggressive,” Leistedt says. Gordon Gekko in Wall Street is an example of a realistic successful movie psychopath. He’s “probably one of the most interesting, manipulative, psychopathic fictional characters to date,” the researchers write.

Hollywood has lately been fascinated by these successful psychopaths, Leistedt and Linkowski note, in the wake of financial crises and high-profile trials such as Bernard Madoff’s. Apparently, vicious stockbrokers are the new bogeymen. Instead of disemboweling their victims, they gut their bank accounts.

What I find interesting is how a lot of movie characters have psychopathic traits when they are not even meant to be psychopaths. The article you mentioned talked about the "successful psychopath", or as I've read it before, the "corporate psychopath". It's really creepy to think that major corporations are being run by psychopaths who will stop at nothing into manipulating people into getting what they want. I think it's interesting that we root for a lot of "good guys" (particularly sci-fi/action films) who are just as, if not more psychopathic than the "bad guys", it just that the "good guy" characters are more similar to the successful or corporate psychopaths in real life and the "bad guy" characters are more like the serial killers that people immediately think of when they think of psychopaths.

trysts

Nov 17, 2015

0

#5

There have been so many movie psychopaths that it's one of the most common themes in movies. It's not quite up there with the love story, for example, but it's a part of many films. Like a sub-genre. Like the gambling-themed movie. Here are a few that immediately come to my mind:

*Barbara Stanwick's Phyllis Dietrichson in the movie, Double Indemnity(1944).

She doesn't murder anybody herself, she gets a dumb insurance salesman to help her. She's married with a step daughter, doesn't care about either of them, and wants her husband dead for the insurance money. She's a thrill-killer. Guilt never occurs to her. This type of psychopath in movies murders for a specific purpose.

*James Cagney's Cody Jarrett in the movie White Heat(1949).

One of the scariest characters I've ever seen in movie's is Cagney's. He's a thief heading a small gang of other thieves. His mother is part of the gang and you can say she really heads the gang because he'll do anything for her, though she'll do anything for him. The rest of the gang just wants money and killing someone happens while they're stealing. For Cody Jarrett, killing people makes him laugh. For this kind of psychopath, murder is a pleasure.

*Ralph Fiennes' Amon Goeth in the movie Schinder's List(1993).

He kills people for target practice. He represents the extreme form of prejudice. A high-ranking officer in the Nazi army, he labels his victims "Jews" and kills them without thinking or feeling anything about it at all. There are a lot of these kind of psychopaths in war movies. For this kind of psychopath, murdering people is like killing a virus.

So those represent three kinds of psychopaths in movies for me. I think killing people is the strongest evidence that a person may be a psychopath. Of course a person may have all the traits of being a psychopath but may have never murdered anyone or manipulated someone else to kill others.

Raspberry_Yoghurt

Nov 17, 2015

0

#6

This is not new ... Achilleus from Illiad and Egil Skallagrimson from Egil's saga would score as raving lunatics in any test :)

I think axing someone in the head when you are 7 would score out pretty high in any such test. Yet Egil was a hero.

awesomechess1729

Nov 17, 2015

0

#7

trysts wrote:

There have been so many movie psychopaths that it's one of the most common themes in movies. It's not quite up there with the love story, for example, but it's a part of many films. Like a sub-genre. Like the gambling-themed movie. Here are a few that immediately come to my mind:

*Barbara Stanwick's Phyllis Dietrichson in the movie, Double Indemnity(1944).

She doesn't murder anybody herself, she gets a dumb insurance salesman to help her. She's married with a step daughter, doesn't care about either of them, and wants her husband dead for the insurance money. She's a thrill-killer. Guilt never occurs to her. This type of psychopath in movies murders for a specific purpose.

*James Cagney's Cody Jarrett in the movie White Heat(1949).

One of the scariest characters I've ever seen in movie's is Cagney's. He's a thief heading a small gang of other thieves. His mother is part of the gang and you can say she really heads the gang because he'll do anything for her, though she'll do anything for him. The rest of the gang just wants money and killing someone happens while they're stealing. For Cody Jarrett, killing people makes him laugh. For this kind of psychopath, murder is a pleasure.

*Ralph Fiennes' Amon Goeth in the movie Schinder's List(1993).

He kills people for target practice. He represents the extreme form of prejudice. A high-ranking officer in the Nazi army, he labels his victims "Jews" and kills them without thinking or feeling anything about it at all. There are a lot of these kind of psychopaths in war movies. For this kind of psychopath, murdering people is like killing a virus.

So those represent three kinds of psychopaths in movies for me. I think killing people is the strongest evidence that a person may be a psychopath. Of course a person may have all the traits of being a psychopath but may have never murdered anyone or manipulated someone else to kill others.

Feel free to try your hand at scoring any of them on the Hare checklist. You can just copy and paste it from Wikipedia or I can provide it for you. I'll work on some more characters in the meantime. It'll be interesting to see who gets the highest scores (or if anyone scores a perfect 40). Of course, this is mostly based on opinion from the movie, but determining who is a psychopath and who is not is not a perfect science, anyway.

awesomechess1729

Nov 17, 2015

0

#8

Of course I love the Matrix, so I'm doing a few Matrix characters next.

Neo

Total Score: 21/40. Not a psychopath, but startlingly close.

**Psychopathy Checklist-Revised: Factors, Facets, and Items^[12]**
Factor 1	Factor 2	Other items
Facet 1: Interpersonal Glibness/superficial charm - 0, none really present, in fact he doesn't act charming at all. Unless you count the shades as evidence of this. Grandiose sense of self-worth- 1, I'm really torn on this one. Neo is the One after all, so he has a reason to believe he is superior. However, at the beginning of the movie he does not know whether he is the One or not, and you think anyone with a regular sense of self-esteem would think that to be unlikely. Then again, maybe Morpheus really convinced him. And when he thinks he's not the One, he calls himself "just another guy" when talking to Trinity. Pathological lying - 0, I'm going to say this isn't present. He doesn't really lie, although he does live a dual life when he is in the Matrix and could be considered somewhat deceptive in that way. Cunning/manipulative- 0, not very cunning, in fact he seems to be victim to the manipulations of the villians, perhaps because he's "not too bright" as the Oracle said Facet 2: Affective Lack of remorse or guilt - 2, this is definitely present, you can't shoot down a whole bunch of innocent security guards in the first place without a significant lack of remorse Emotionally shallow - 2, again I'm torn on this one because I don't know if this was intended or was Keanu Reeves' fault, but Neo does seem to have what psychologists might call a "flat affect", where the face shows little to no change in expression Callous/lack of empathy - 1, although he's not totally lacking in empathy as clearly he seems to be able to relate to Morpheus and Trinity, he doesn't seem too upset when a lot of the crew members are killed Failure to accept responsibility for own actions - 2, seems pretty irresponsible, considering everything he's done	Facet 3: Lifestyle Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom - 2, I'd say this is present because when he is in the Matrix, he spends most of his time hacking and trying to find out what the Matrix is, indicating that he needs stimulation. Then again, his Matrix life seems pretty boring Parasitic lifestyle - 0, not present, in fact he's kind of a pushover (at least when he's still living in the Matrix) Lack of realistic, long-term goals - 1, mixed evidence for this one. One one hand he doesn't really have long term goals. On the other hand, he does promise to free people's minds, which is kind of long term. Impulsivity- 2, I'd say most of his decisions are pretty impulsive (meeting Morpheus after one phone call, shooting a bunch of people to save Morpheus, etc.) Irresponsibility - 2, Again, doesn't take much responsibility for his actions Facet 4: Antisocial Poor behavioral controls - 1, he does seem to act antisocial at times. Like when he flipped off Agent Smith (also a pretty irresponsible thing to do). Early behavioral problems - 2, I actually looked up what it said on the profile Agent Smith has (it's way too small and shown way too quickly to be seen by most people, but luckily some nerds figured it out: http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/Neo), anyway it says on that profile that he "had disciplinary troubles when he was 13-14 years old". Juvenile delinquency - 1, I'm not sure if the "disciplinary troubles" are meant to imply he was a delinquent. Revocation of conditional release - 0, not applicable Criminal versatility - 2, I was going to say "0" for this one until I realized Agent Smith did say Neo had broken "every computer law we have a name for". Sounds like criminal versatility to me, unless Agent Smith was lying or exaggerating about that.	Many short-term marital relationships-0,not applicable, in fact his one steady relationship with Trinity makes him more of the opposite Promiscuous sexual behavior- 0, again in a steady relationship and technically he was a virgin before he was released from the Matrix (and I've got a feeling he was a virgin when he was living in the Matrix as well)

awesomechess1729

Nov 17, 2015

0

#9

trysts wrote:

There have been so many movie psychopaths that it's one of the most common themes in movies. It's not quite up there with the love story, for example, but it's a part of many films. Like a sub-genre. Like the gambling-themed movie. Here are a few that immediately come to my mind:

*Barbara Stanwick's Phyllis Dietrichson in the movie, Double Indemnity(1944).

She doesn't murder anybody herself, she gets a dumb insurance salesman to help her. She's married with a step daughter, doesn't care about either of them, and wants her husband dead for the insurance money. She's a thrill-killer. Guilt never occurs to her. This type of psychopath in movies murders for a specific purpose.

*James Cagney's Cody Jarrett in the movie White Heat(1949).

One of the scariest characters I've ever seen in movie's is Cagney's. He's a thief heading a small gang of other thieves. His mother is part of the gang and you can say she really heads the gang because he'll do anything for her, though she'll do anything for him. The rest of the gang just wants money and killing someone happens while they're stealing. For Cody Jarrett, killing people makes him laugh. For this kind of psychopath, murder is a pleasure.

*Ralph Fiennes' Amon Goeth in the movie Schinder's List(1993).

He kills people for target practice. He represents the extreme form of prejudice. A high-ranking officer in the Nazi army, he labels his victims "Jews" and kills them without thinking or feeling anything about it at all. There are a lot of these kind of psychopaths in war movies. For this kind of psychopath, murdering people is like killing a virus.

So those represent three kinds of psychopaths in movies for me. I think killing people is the strongest evidence that a person may be a psychopath. Of course a person may have all the traits of being a psychopath but may have never murdered anyone or manipulated someone else to kill others.

I find this interesting, considering most psychopaths have a criminal history (although I think the more successful ones haven't necessarily murdered anyone), and killing someone without real reason or remorse is definitely a sign someone might be a psychopath, but especially in action movies often both the protagonist and antagonist have histories of killing someone.

awesomechess1729

Nov 17, 2015

0

#10

The Merovingian (aka The Frenchman) from the Matrix sequels

Total Score: 23/40 (again pretty close to an actual psychopathy diagnosis. I thought he was going to make the cut, but he didn't.)

**Psychopathy Checklist-Revised: Factors, Facets, and Items^[12]**
Factor 1	Factor 2	Other items
Facet 1: Interpersonal Glibness/superficial charm - 2, he certainly has superficial charm, especially as he acts and dresses to appear sophisticated Grandiose sense of self-worth - 2, again, definitely there, he clearly thinks he is superior Pathological lying - 1, no direct evidence that he lies consistently, but he did put on a false persona that tricked Persephone into marrying him (funnily enough, though, when Persephone explains this to Neo she says he "used to be like you", which is a little odd as Neo has some psychopathic traits himself) Cunning/manipulative-2, he is extremely manipulative, his job depends on making deals with people and other programs that end up with him manipulating them, also as aforementioned he manipulated Persephone Facet 2: Affective Lack of remorse or guilt - 2, surprisingly enough he is not a killer himself, but orders other programs to kill for him. He displays no remorse regarding any of these actions. Emotionally shallow - 2, very much so, he appears cool and calm even in situations unfavorable for him (like when Trinity holds him at gunpoint) Callous/lack of empathy- 2, displays no empathy whatsoever Failure to accept responsibility for own actions - 2, he never accepts responsibility for anything he does	Facet 3: Lifestyle Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom - 0, in fact just the opposite: he seems to enjoy living a rich life and takes his time when he manipulates people and programs Parasitic lifestyle - 2, he feeds off of both Persephone and the programs who work for him Lack of realistic, long-term goals - 0, in fact he does deliberately plan many of his goals, and he wants to be like the Oracle, which is why he requests "the eyes of the Oracle" Impulsivity - 1, he is impulsive in some actions and not in others, obviously he is deliberate in the deals he makes with other programs, but very impulsive when it comes to cheating on Persephone Irresponsibility - 2, again, he doesn't take any responsibility for what he does Facet 4: Antisocial Poor behavioral controls - 0, seems to be able to control what he does as part of his manipulation Early behavioral problems - 0, no evidence of this, especially as he is a program, so he may not even have had a childhood Juvenile delinquency - 0, again nothing to suggest this Revocation of conditional release - 0, no evidence for this Criminal versatility - 2, he is very versatile in the way he manipulates othes	Many short-term marital relationships-1, I'm a little torn on this one considering he has had one long-term relationship with his wife, Persephone, but as he cheats on her constantly and seems disinterested in her that relationship would be short-term if it could be Promiscuous sexual behavior - 2, he cheats on Persephone with other programs all of the time

awesomechess1729

Nov 17, 2015

0

#11

Chess_is_my_Heaven wrote:

AGENT Smith .. he has to be Psychopath - Got to be next!!! please

I'm planning to score him on the list next. The cool thing about him is that he appears more and more psychopathic as the trilogy progresses.

awesomechess1729

Nov 17, 2015

0

#12

Agent Smith (I'm evaluating him based on all three of the Matrix films, as he displays more and more psychopathic traits throughout them)

Total Score: 32/40 (he certainly makes the cut for a diagnosis, he is only one point above James Bond, but that's only because he was missing four traits and then had all of the rest of them)

**Psychopathy Checklist-Revised: Factors, Facets, and Items^[12]**
Factor 1	Factor 2	Other items
Facet 1: Interpersonal Glibness/superficial charm - 2, is full of superficial charm right from the beginning. Even though his suit and shades are meant to be a part of his job in the first movie, he continues to wear them throughout the trilogy. He also tries to appear charming to Neo in the first film when trying to manipulate Neo into helping the agents track down Morpheus Grandiose sense of self-worth - 2, this is present even in the first film as Agent Smith seems different from the other agents from the start and thinks himself superior enough to defy what agents are normally supposed to do; later on he has an extremely narcissistic view of himself as he becomes more and more powerful Pathological lying - 2, lies consistently, both to Neo (in trying to manipulate him) and to his fellow agents (saying that the Matrix is "genius" in front of the other agents before later telling Morpheus that he "hates this place"). When he is possessing Bane, he tells people he did not cut himself (Bane) when he did Cunning/manipulative-2,clearly very much so; he almost does everything based on manipulation Facet 2: Affective Lack of remorse or guilt - 2, shows no remorse for his actions as he kills Neo before Neo is resurrected and later takes over the Matrix (and he kills several people when he possesses Bane) Emotionally shallow - 2, for the most part he doesn't display any emotions, except occasionally when he gets angry Callous/lack of empathy - 2, doesn't show any empathy at all throughout the trilogy (and doesn't have any respect for Neo's name for unknown reasons, but this could be a result of him having no empathy) Failure to accept responsibility for own actions - 2, doesn't accept any responsibility for what he does	Facet 3: Lifestyle Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom - 2, it would appear he has a constant need for stimulation as he is constantly interacting with humans and other programs at level other agents do not in the first movie Parasitic lifestyle - 2, he clearly feeds off of manipulating others and becomes more literally a sort of parasite when he possesses Bane Lack of realistic, long-term goals - 2, although he seems intent on taking over the Matrix and defeating his enemies, he doesn't really plan this and takes action on this more on impulse Impulsivity - 2, seems very impulsive in his actions, especially when he gets violent Irresponsibility - 2, again, he doesn't take any responsibility for anything Facet 4: Antisocial Poor behavioral controls - 2, can easily get angry and doesn't seem able to restrain himself Early behavioral problems - 0, there's no evidence Agent Smith (or for that matter, any other program) was ever a child or a youth Juvenile delinquency - 0, again no evidence for this Revocation of conditional release - 2, I was going to give this one a "0" but then I realized perhaps this could be reinterpreted in the context of the film. At the end of the first film, Neo jumps into Smith, but Smith returns apparently even more evil in the second film. Smith then says that maybe his program overlapped with Neo, implying that maybe Agent Smith had a shot at redemption, but instead became more evil (perhaps he got all of Neo's psychopathic traits?) Anyway, that's my interpretation of it Criminal versatility- 2, certainly shows versatility in his crimes, especially as he gains more powers in the sequels	Many short-term marital relationships-0, No evidence of this Promiscuous sexual behavior- 0, again no evidence for this

trysts

Nov 18, 2015

0

#13

awesomechess1729 wrote:

Feel free to try your hand at scoring any of them on the Hare checklist. You can just copy and paste it from Wikipedia or I can provide it for you. I'll work on some more characters in the meantime. It'll be interesting to see who gets the highest scores (or if anyone scores a perfect 40). Of course, this is mostly based on opinion from the movie, but determining who is a psychopath and who is not is not a perfect science, anyway.

I'll try it:)

trysts

Nov 18, 2015

0

#14

I'm going to do Phyliss Dietrichson, played by Barbara Stanwyck in Double Indemnity.

**Psychopathy Checklist-Revised: Factors, Facets, and Items**
Factor 1	Factor 2	Other items
Facet 1: Interpersonal Glibness/superficial charm - 2: She acts like she's fallen for the insurance guy(played by Fred MacMurray), but it's just an act. Grandiose sense of self-worth - 2: She thinks herself getting rich is more important than a human life. Pathological lying - 2: She lies all-the-time. Cunning/manipulative- 2: Very much. Facet 2: Affective Lack of remorse or guilt- 2: No guilt or remorse at all. Emotionally shallow- 2: She wants someone murdered for their life insurance money. Callous/lack of empathy - 2: No empathy, sympathy, or compassion. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions - 1: That's not so clear with this character, but it can be assumed. Total Score: 26/40	Facet 3: Lifestyle Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom- 2: She seems like a dangerous thrill-seeker. Parasitic lifestyle - 2: Yes. Lack of realistic, long-term goals- 1: Unsure Impulsivity - 1: Seems like it, though the murder itself she planned carefully. Irresponsibility - 2: Murder is about as irresponsible as you can get. Facet 4: Antisocial Poor behavioral controls - 0: She's in complete control of her actions. Early behavioral problems - 0: No clue. Juvenile delinquency - 0: No clue. Revocation of conditional release - 0: No clue. Criminal versatility- 1: Probably.	Many short-term marital relationships - 1: One marriage we know of that was cut short for sure. Promiscuous sexual behavior- 1: It's assumed but no real evidence

u0110001101101000

Nov 18, 2015

0

#15

Some of these are a stretch... which is to some extent unavoidable. After all, it's a character, not a person. So there will always be blanks filled in by your interpretation.

And that very interpretation may be of more psychological interest than what's able to make money at the box office. For example whether you have a preoccupation with or willingness to see psychopathic traits.

trysts

Nov 18, 2015

0

#16

There's probably more psychopaths in American films than films from other countries, but that's just a guess

awesomechess1729

Nov 18, 2015

0

#17

trysts wrote:

I'm going to do Phyliss Dietrichson, played by Barbara Stanwyck in Double Indemnity.

Psychopathy Checklist-Revised: Factors, Facets, and Items Factor 1Factor 2Other items

Facet 1: Interpersonal

Glibness/superficial charm - 2: She acts like she's fallen for the insurance guy(played by Fred MacMurray), but it's just an act. Grandiose sense of self-worth - 2: She thinks herself getting rich is more important than a human life.
Pathological lying - 2: She lies all-the-time. Cunning/manipulative- 2: Very much.

Facet 2: Affective

Lack of remorse or guilt- 2: No guilt or remorse at all. Emotionally shallow- 2: She wants someone murdered for their life insurance money.
Callous/lack of empathy - 2: No empathy, sympathy, or compassion.

Failure to accept responsibility for own actions - 1: That's not so clear with this character, but it can be assumed.

Total Score: 26/40

Facet 3: Lifestyle

Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom- 2: She seems like a dangerous thrill-seeker.
Parasitic lifestyle - 2: Yes.
Lack of realistic, long-term goals- 1: Unsure
Impulsivity - 1: Seems like it, though the murder itself she planned carefully.
Irresponsibility - 2: Murder is about as irresponsible as you can get.

Facet 4: Antisocial

Poor behavioral controls - 0: She's in complete control of her actions.
Early behavioral problems - 0: No clue.
Juvenile delinquency - 0: No clue.
Revocation of conditional release - 0: No clue.
Criminal versatility- 1: Probably. Many short-term marital relationships - 1: One marriage we know of that was cut short for sure. Promiscuous sexual behavior- 1: It's assumed but no real evidence

She seems pretty psychopathic by your description, even though she techincally doesn't make the cutoff mark by your score. It's interesting how some facets/characteristics seem more important than others (for example, Affective would be pretty important but not as much the two criteria regarding relationships) in determining whether a person is a psychopath.

u0110001101101000

Nov 19, 2015

0

#18

A movie I've been meaning to see (for a long time now, wow, 2003) is Monster. Wonder how the main character there would rate.

u0110001101101000

Nov 19, 2015

0

#19

Chess_is_my_Heaven wrote:

Looking at evil is fascinating, havent you ever been driving and there was an accident. blood on the side of the road.. would you be tempted to look that part of us. its primal.. eg more books written about Jack the ripper than Abraham lincolin the fascination serial killers is not a new phenomenon

Highly stylized and pervasive news media coverage of real-life serial killers and their horrible deeds transforms them into what I refer to as celebrity monsters. In order to understand why so many people in society are captivated by serial killers, it is necessary to examine the social agents and processes that promote them.

why serial killers fascinate so many people, and how and why serial killers are transformed into morbid popular culture personalities or “celebrity monsters.”

In many ways, serial killers are for adults what monster movies are for children—that is, scary fun! However, the pleasure an adult receives from watching serial killers can be difficult to admit, and may even trigger feelings of guilt. In fact, the research conducted for this book reveals that many people who are fascinated with serial killers refer to it as a guilty pleasure.

The average person who has been socialized to respect life, and who also possesses the normal range of emotions such as love, shame, pity and remorse cannot comprehend the workings of a pathological mind that would compel one to abduct, torture, rape, kill, engage in necrophilia, and occasionally even eat another human being. The incomprehensibility of such actions drives society to understand why serial killers do incredibly horrible things to other people who often are complete strangers.

As such, serial killers appeal to the most basic and powerful instinct in all of us—that is, survival. The total disregard for life and the suffering of others exhibited by serial killers shocks our sense of humanity and makes us question our safety and security.

The research for this reveals that the public loves serial killers for a number of interrelated reasons. First, they are rare in the business of murder with perhaps twenty-five or so operating at any given time in the U.S. They and their crimes are exotic and tantalizing to people much like traffic accidents and natural disasters. Serial killers are so extreme in their brutality and so seemingly unnatural in their behavior that people are drawn to them out of intense curiosity.

Second, they generally kill randomly, choosing victims based on personal attraction or random opportunities presented to them. This factor makes anyone a potential victim, even if the odds of ever encountering one are about the same as being attacked by a great white shark. Third, serial killers are prolific and insatiable, meaning that they kill many people over a period of years rather than killing one person in a single impulsive act, which is the typical pattern of murder in the U.S.

Fourth, their behavior is seemingly inexplicable and without a coherent motive such as jealousy or rage. They are driven by inner demons that even they may not comprehend. Many people are morbidly drawn to the violence of serial killers because they cannot understand it and feel compelled to.

Fifth, they have a visceral appeal for the public similar to monster movies because they provide a euphoric adrenaline rush. Consequently, their atrocity tales in the news and entertainment media are addictive. Finally, they provide a conduit for the public’s most primal feelings such as fear, lust and anger.

The serial killer represents a lurid, complex and compelling presence on the social landscape. There appears to be an innate human tendency to identify or empathize with all things—whether good or bad—including serial killers.

Another horrifying thing to many people, I suspect, is when a serial killer looks like a normal person. Maybe they were even a prominent member of the community until they were caught.

awesomechess1729

Nov 21, 2015

0

#20

Though this doesn't really count as a movie character (unless you count him in the Batman movies), I'm going to Hare checklist this one anyway. I've been watching the first few episodes of the recent DC Comics television series Gotham (it's on Netflix right now, if anyone's interested). It's a pretty good show, and though I've always been more of a Marvel fan, I've got to say I like it. (Marvel's competing Netflix shows aren't as good in my opinion- they are just making them darker and darker to appeal to an older audience, and all of the gratuitous violence just takes the comic-book-y fun out of it. And c'mon guys, Hell's Kitchen doesn't need two semi-psychopathic vigilantes with a murderous streak. It may be called Hell's Kitchen, but it's only about 0.84 square miles. ) Anyway, the character I will be analyzing tonight is Oswald Cobblepot aka Penguin. He really struck me as having psychopathic traits straight from the first episode. He's certainly a villian but I don't know if he's supposed to be a psychopath. To me, movie characters who are intentionally supposed to be psychopaths aren't that interesting, partially because they were intentionally given a lot of psychopathic traits, and partially because often movie makers get it wrong.

Penguin

Total Score: 34/40 Wow! Highest psychopathy score yet! Who knew? (Although in this case there's no real cutoff mark for psychopathy, as it's Gotham.) (Maybe he doesn't count because he's from a TV show, though.) The only thing I have to say about this that I find interesting is that he does have one weird tendency that might make him less of a realistic psychopath: he tends to giggle a lot, usually when he's trying to manipulate people. And as the article Chess_is_my_Heaven posted said, real psychopaths don't giggle. Then again, Penguin's giggling could just be fabricated, as he does tend to use it mainly when he's manipulating people.

**Psychopathy Checklist-Revised: Factors, Facets, and Items^[12]**
Factor 1	Factor 2	Other items
Facet 1: Interpersonal Glibness/superficial charm - 2, Though he certainly acts charming and innocent to get his ways, he doesn't have the psychopath-in-a-suit-all-the-time kind of glib, but nevertheless this is still a 2 (EDIT: Apparently he is all dressed up in the comics, and Gotham is supposed to take place before Batman.) Grandiose sense of self-worth- 1, This isn't really displayed but he clearly values himself enough to kill many others Pathological lying - 2, he lies all of the time to get what he wants Cunning/manipulative-2,very much so, when he's not murdering people, he's manipulating them Facet 2: Affective Lack of remorse or guilt- 2, very clear, he kills people all of the time without a second though Emotionally shallow - 1, I'm a little conflicted on this one. He does seem to display a wide range of emotions (anger, fear, not really happiness but definitely schadenfruede (did I spell that correctly), but at least some of it is a part of his act. It still looks like too much emotion to be all part of an act, though Callous/lack of empathy- 2, again, this is very present, he has empathy for no one Failure to accept responsibility for own actions- 2, very clear, he kills people all of the time and doesn't claim responsibility	Facet 3: Lifestyle Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom - 2, I'd say yes for this one because in the first episode he is told to never come back to Gotham but of course the next episode he does. He later says that he felt he had to come back to Gotham because it felt like "home" to him, presumably because of all of the crime going on in the city Parasitic lifestyle - 2, there's not a moment where he isn't killing people for their money or food or spying on people for information, or manipulating people for other goals Lack of realistic, long-term goals - 2, he goes from working for criminal to criminal without really settling on anything Impulsivity- 2, He goes on impulsive killing sprees all of the time Irresponsibility- 2, Very irresponsible in murdering people and doesn't really do anything he is told to do Facet 4: Antisocial Poor behavioral controls - 2, can't control his behavior at all Early behavioral problems - 2, Not present in the show, but I thought maybe there would be a backstory in the comics, and as it turns out, his father dies and he is bullied at a young age, so he eventually turns to crime Juvenile delinquency- 2, Again, in the comics he is a criminal at a young age Revocation of conditional release - 2, again reinterpreting this in the context of the story, he is given another chance at life and to stop wreaking havoc on Gotham, but he doesn't take this opportunity Criminal versatility- 2, He finds many ways to kill and manipulate people	Many short-term marital relationships-0,I looked this up and even in the comics he didn't have any girlfriends or wives Promiscuous sexual behavior- 0, again no evidence of this