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EndgameEnthusiast2357
seasideman wrote:
Coddiwompler wrote:

”We live in a feminist and effeminate culture. Because of this, at best, as a people we are uneasy with masculinity, and with increasing regularity, whenever it manages to appear somehow, we call for someone to do something about it.” -Douglas Wilson

I am pleased that we live in a feminist culture, it's a very good thing indeed. And is it effeminate? Perhaps, but I'm fine with that too. With so much toxic masculinity in the world, effeminacy seems reasonable to me. And yes, I am male.

Agreed.

Coddiwompler
seasideman wrote:
Coddiwompler wrote:

”We live in a feminist and effeminate culture. Because of this, at best, as a people we are uneasy with masculinity, and with increasing regularity, whenever it manages to appear somehow, we call for someone to do something about it.” -Douglas Wilson

I am pleased that we live in a feminist culture, it's a very good thing indeed. And is it effeminate? Perhaps, but I'm fine with that too. With so much toxic masculinity in the world, effeminacy seems reasonable to me. And yes, I am male.

You may be a male, but are you a man, that is the question

SixtySecondsOfHell
seasideman wrote:
Coddiwompler wrote:

”We live in a feminist and effeminate culture. Because of this, at best, as a people we are uneasy with masculinity, and with increasing regularity, whenever it manages to appear somehow, we call for someone to do something about it.” -Douglas Wilson

I am pleased that we live in a feminist culture, it's a very good thing indeed. And is it effeminate? Perhaps, but I'm fine with that too. With so much toxic masculinity in the world, effeminacy seems reasonable to me. And yes, I am male.

Attractive women profit enormously from "toxic masculinity" which is why we have it.

Putting men who "respect women" in power puts physically attractive, unqualified women out of a job.

Men are not the enemy of #metoo.

seasideman
Coddiwompler wrote:
 

You may be a male, but are you a man, that is the question

"man: adult male human"

So that's a yes. Feminism is very good for men as well as women for a whole host of reasons.

seasideman
SixtySecondsOfHell wrote:
 

Attractive women profit enormously from "toxic masculinity" which is why we have it.

Putting men who "respect women" in power puts physically attractive, unqualified women out of a job.

Men are not the enemy of #metoo.

No-one benefits from those toxic traits. They hurt men and they hurt women. The tide has been steadily changing for the last 100 years or so and it will continue to do so until the last traces of that toxicity is erased and until we have established  the political, economic, personal, and social equality of the sexes.

It's OK for men to have emotions and be concerned for their mental health. You don't have to try to be tough. It's better to be warm than to be cool.

Men are the cause of #metoo... and we can also help to make it much better, but not by being toxic.

SixtySecondsOfHell
seasideman wrote:
SixtySecondsOfHell wrote:
 

Attractive women profit enormously from "toxic masculinity" which is why we have it.

Putting men who "respect women" in power puts physically attractive, unqualified women out of a job.

Men are not the enemy of #metoo.

No-one benefits from those toxic traits. They hurt men and they hurt women. The tide has been steadily changing for the last 100 years or so and it will continue to do so until the last traces of that toxicity is erased and until we have established  the political, economic, personal, and social equality of the sexes.

It's OK for men to have emotions and be concerned for their mental health. You don't have to try to be tough. It's better to be warm than to be cool.

Men are the cause of #metoo... and we can also help to make it much better, but not by being toxic.

Unqualified, attractive women definitely profit from #metoo, since the hiring process that leads to it favors them. Many women will even lie under oatr to protect their paycheck rather than out a predator. It's like saying no one benefits when a woman sleeps her way into a job...other than the woman who sleeps her way into a job. THAT woman is the enemy of metoo.

Nice theory, but men who have mental health issues and show emotions are stigmatized as weak.

You say men cause #metoo, but what causes the men? Women have been sleeping with the patriarchy and spending its money for 2,000 years.

Like I said, if you put feminist, non-predatory men in power, pretty, unqualified women will be out of a job.

As I said, negative outcomes have negative causes.

Also are there no lesbian predators anywhere?

seasideman

@SixtySecondsOfHell

Bye.

SixtySecondsOfHell
seasideman wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4wBbx9wE5U

Coddiwompler
seasideman wrote:
SixtySecondsOfHell wrote:
 

Attractive women profit enormously from "toxic masculinity" which is why we have it.

Putting men who "respect women" in power puts physically attractive, unqualified women out of a job.

Men are not the enemy of #metoo.

No-one benefits from those toxic traits. They hurt men and they hurt women. The tide has been steadily changing for the last 100 years or so and it will continue to do so until the last traces of that toxicity is erased and until we have established  the political, economic, personal, and social equality of the sexes.

It's OK for men to have emotions and be concerned for their mental health. You don't have to try to be tough. It's better to be warm than to be cool.

Men are the cause of #metoo... and we can also help to make it much better, but not by being toxic.

What are the so called "toxic traits" you are blabbering about in all the chessdotcom forums and threads?

Coddiwompler
seasideman wrote:
Coddiwompler wrote:
 

You may be a male, but are you a man, that is the question

"man: adult male human"

So that's a yes. Feminism is very good for men as well as women for a whole host of reasons.

“Because there is very little honor left in American life, there is a certain built-in tendency to destroy masculinity in American men.” –Norman Mailer

seasideman
Coddiwompler wrote:
 

What are the so called "toxic traits" you are blabbering about in all the chessdotcom forums and threads?

I don't believe that you don't already know the answer to this. I'm not going to play silly games so I am now ending this discussion. I will let you have the last word.

SixtySecondsOfHell
seasideman wrote:
Coddiwompler wrote:
 

What are the so called "toxic traits" you are blabbering about in all the chessdotcom forums and threads?

I don't believe that you don't already know the answer to this. I'm not going to play silly games so I am now ending this discussion. I will let you have the last word.

Right, better to just generalize than to get specific.

Say, why do single mothers cover up for boyfriends who beat their kids, often for months or years? Are men to blame for that as well?

If fashion magazines cause eating disorders by setting unrealistic body standards, does women's preference for money cause men to commit crimes?

How much "male violence" is either a fight over a woman, or a fight on behalf of one?

Coddiwompler
seasideman wrote:
Coddiwompler wrote:
 

What are the so called "toxic traits" you are blabbering about in all the chessdotcom forums and threads?

I don't believe that you don't already know the answer to this. I'm not going to play silly games so I am now ending this discussion. I will let you have the last word.

If we can't discuss the so called "toxic traits" what was the point of your comments?

egniib
SixtySecondsOfHell schreef:
seasideman wrote:
SixtySecondsOfHell wrote:
 

Attractive women profit enormously from "toxic masculinity" which is why we have it.

Putting men who "respect women" in power puts physically attractive, unqualified women out of a job.

Men are not the enemy of #metoo.

No-one benefits from those toxic traits. They hurt men and they hurt women. The tide has been steadily changing for the last 100 years or so and it will continue to do so until the last traces of that toxicity is erased and until we have established  the political, economic, personal, and social equality of the sexes.

It's OK for men to have emotions and be concerned for their mental health. You don't have to try to be tough. It's better to be warm than to be cool.

Men are the cause of #metoo... and we can also help to make it much better, but not by being toxic.

Unqualified, attractive women definitely profit from #metoo, since the hiring process that leads to it favors them. Many women will even lie under oatr to protect their paycheck rather than out a predator. It's like saying no one benefits when a woman sleeps her way into a job...other than the woman who sleeps her way into a job. THAT woman is the enemy of metoo.

Nice theory, but men who have mental health issues and show emotions are stigmatized as weak.

You say men cause #metoo, but what causes the men? Women have been sleeping with the patriarchy and spending its money for 2,000 years.

Like I said, if you put feminist, non-predatory men in power, pretty, unqualified women will be out of a job.

As I said, negative outcomes have negative causes.

Also are there no lesbian predators anywhere?

Wait what? Do you even understand what it's about? I assume not, since you are mentioning things that are not even close to relevant to this topic.

chesslover0003
Coddiwompler wrote:

I saw some of the comments, most of them were praising FIDE's decision or were asking (me included) what was so "controversial" about it

@coddiwompler my understanding of FIDE's position is:

  • FIDE will allow players to change the gender on their FIDE membership. [Good]
  • When a player requests a change of gender on their FIDE membership they are required to provide proof of a gender change that complies with their national laws and regulations. [Controversial]
    • Not all countries will allow an individual to change their gender and requirements vary. [Bad]
    • This creates an additional expense and burden for an already marginalized community [Bad]
    • There is criticism that that is a violation of privacy (and illegal in some countries). I believe German and English chess leagues (perhaps more) do not require proof of gender change.
  • Trans men and women can compete in open/mixed tournaments [this was always the case].
  • Trans women cannot compete in women's tournaments until FIDE approves the gender change. [Controversial]
    • Even if a request is in process, the player must wait [Bad]
    • FIDE advises this could take up to two years [Bad]
    • I'd like to hear practical feedback from others how long it took for them to change their gender
  • Players that change their gender will retain their ELO ratings. [Good]
  • Women's titles earned prior to a gender change will be abolished. [Controversial]
    • FIDE will transfer abolished titles to a new lower-level title [Good?]
    • FIDE will reinstate previously held titles if the player changes gender back to a woman [Good]
    • I expect a player will be proud of their past achievements and titles. I don't know if a man would want to hold a women's title.
  • FIDE acknowledges this is an ever evolving issue that they continue to monitor.
    • This suggests there could be changes. Will they be good or bad?

There may be something I missed but I think that covers the most of it. I hope that is helpful for you.

chesslover0003

@gbtgba the issue is simple. Trans men are men. Trans women are women. Women can play in open and women’s tournaments. There is no need to abolish women’s tournaments.

Coddiwompler
BrianErdelyi wrote:

@gbtgba the issue is simple. Trans men are men. Trans women are women. Women can play in open and women’s tournaments. There is no need to abolish women’s tournaments.

it is not that simple

SixtySecondsOfHell
egniib wrote:
SixtySecondsOfHell schreef:
seasideman wrote:
SixtySecondsOfHell wrote:
 

Attractive women profit enormously from "toxic masculinity" which is why we have it.

Putting men who "respect women" in power puts physically attractive, unqualified women out of a job.

Men are not the enemy of #metoo.

No-one benefits from those toxic traits. They hurt men and they hurt women. The tide has been steadily changing for the last 100 years or so and it will continue to do so until the last traces of that toxicity is erased and until we have established  the political, economic, personal, and social equality of the sexes.

It's OK for men to have emotions and be concerned for their mental health. You don't have to try to be tough. It's better to be warm than to be cool.

Men are the cause of #metoo... and we can also help to make it much better, but not by being toxic.

Unqualified, attractive women definitely profit from #metoo, since the hiring process that leads to it favors them. Many women will even lie under oatr to protect their paycheck rather than out a predator. It's like saying no one benefits when a woman sleeps her way into a job...other than the woman who sleeps her way into a job. THAT woman is the enemy of metoo.

Nice theory, but men who have mental health issues and show emotions are stigmatized as weak.

You say men cause #metoo, but what causes the men? Women have been sleeping with the patriarchy and spending its money for 2,000 years.

Like I said, if you put feminist, non-predatory men in power, pretty, unqualified women will be out of a job.

As I said, negative outcomes have negative causes.

Also are there no lesbian predators anywhere?

Wait what? Do you even understand what it's about? I assume not, since you are mentioning things that are not even close to relevant to this topic.

You think women lie under oath about being sexually harassed for something other than preserving their paycheck at the expense of victims?

How about women who cover up for their boyfriends who beat their kids for months or years?

"Women" includes that too. Men are not the enemy, and certainly not the men who don't harass. It's very easy to ignore women once they start criminalizing rejection. Who do they gravitate to in the chess world? High rated, wealthy players.

if you want to discuss women, do so, but don't ignore what you don't like.

Secretuse
seasideman wrote:
Coddiwompler wrote:
 

What are the so called "toxic traits" you are blabbering about in all the chessdotcom forums and threads?

I don't believe that you don't already know the answer to this. I'm not going to play silly games so I am now ending this discussion. I will let you have the last word.

I mean this sincerely and honestly. I also do not know what even means "toxic" in relation to human behaviour. There are in recent years many strange new expressions coming from "the West", which are being used and people from the West somehow assume, everybody knows what it means, even if those other people come from different cultures, than from the West and have much different experience.

For me, "toxic" meant for years some unheatlhy factor, that comes from synthetically made products, which are made in chemical factories. It was always strictly related to anorganic things, while its "living" alternatives were "venomous" for fauna (animals) and "poisonous" for flora (plants). Then in recent years, it has become by people from the West associated to living organisms, specifically to humans, which really confused me and appeared to me as a nonsense. Since nobody cared to explain what it means, I learned to percept the word "toxic" in connection to humans, as a manipulative empty label, that is being used to spit at opinion opponents and that label having no meaning.

I can assure you @seasideman that, there are honestly people, especially those, who are not from the West, who do not understand what "toxic" or "toxic traits" mean in relation to humans. And even if you will state, that you do not believe it (which is in my opinon pretty arrogant approach), it will not change understanding of that expression for the people, who are not aware of definition of the word in that context.

badger_song

We are the center of the solar system....