Bug in analysis board?

I thought about that. It's just a continuation of the discussion here. I chose to make it private by sending him a message. He chose to not have the discussion privately.

I think it's pretty safe to say that chess.com made this change not to disable legal-move enforcement per se, but rather to enable free-form piece placement, which has been a recurring enhancement request.  They don't see it as taking something away, I think, but rather as providing something that was missing.  

Personally, I see value both in the taking away of legal move enforcement *and* in the advent of free-form; however, some here see it as a dubious trade-off.

Yes, I hadn't given much thought to free-form piece placement as the reason for the recent change to Chess.com's Analysis Board, but that certainly explains how Chess.com could consistently do that and still allow outside analysis boards with no ability to defeat illegal-move prevention.

I guess purists could still argue against illegal-move prevention as being a separate and independent basis for the change to the Chess.com Analysis Board, but I'm not one of them. My own argument along those lines during this forum discussion was, of course, contrary to my own interests all along because of the implication that it would prevent me from using my outside analysis board, but it seemed to me to be the academically right, so I made it anyway. However, since illegal-move prevention for its own merit appears to be a non-issue with Chess.com, I have no interest in pressing the point.

It may have gotten a bit heated at a point or two, but I have to say that I found this discussion here to be most interesting. I wish all forum debates could be as good.

I must admit, I spent an enjoyable sunday afternoon.

Well, that prevents any bad feelings about starting it  (not that i had them, to be honest)

Still, while free placement of pieces certainly has its uses, it could be incorporated differently - for example in another board under the 'learn' menu.

Also, perhaps it would be possible to make a feature whereby one can import games into that new board, but also into the game explorer. While that is a wonderful piece of software (the main reason I went premium even), it tends to lag and sometimes even 'crash' if you try to replicate a position with more than 5 or 6 moves too quickly.

The analysis board could then revert back to it's old form, and I think everyone would see that end-result as an improvement over what we had last week ;)

 It is my experience that "feature" is code jockey lingo for "Bug".

If this is a new "feature" it should be included as an option. You should be able to use the analysis board as before and then click a box that would allow you to set up the board differently. I think this may indeed be a bug in the system.

I was surprised by the change in the analysis board, but it isn't a bug.  This is definitely an improvement - but you do have to be careful how you use it.  You can no longer depend on the software to stop you from doing something illegal.  On the other hand, you now have a tool you can use more freely to analyze a game.  It isn't a bug at all - this is no unintended defect.  It is a welcome enhancement.

I have no problems with the change.  You can also use the little chessboard icon right above where you type as a smart analysis board.  :)  The chess wizard also prevents you from making an illegal move.  :)

"little chessboard icon right above whre you type" . . . ?

"chess wizard" . . . ?

Eins, what am I missing here. Fill me in, will ya?

There is a toolbar just right above where you type a new message for this forum.  :)  This toolbar is very similiar to the toolbar you would see in a word processor.  The left most icon in the toolbar looks like a little board.  If you click on it then you will get a pop up window (your computer might block it so you might have to hold down 'ctrl' while you click) that will guide you through on how you want to insert your diagram (move sequence or puzzle).  Its function is to display move sequences, puzzles, or a diagram into your message.  But you can use it as a smart board.  It might take a little longer this way though because you have to enter the moves through inserting the pgn or inserting the moves manually.  :)

hi all --

i'd just like to add my two cents on this issue. i lost a game today because of this change. it was a real doozy because i was ahead and going in for the kill. (http://www.chess.com/echess/game.html?id=16637623 -- move 27 -- for anyone who's interested.)

i didn't realize the analysis board had changed and it allowed me to do a move when i was in check that it would have previously stopped. anyway, it was very frustrating!

i definitely think you should give players the option to have a "rules-based" analysis board as well as an open board. can someone on staff please let me know if this is a possibility? thanks.

I feel for you, kappyben. Fortunately I figured out the change by accidentally making an illegal move when analysing (just goofing around and moving my piece out of an absolute pin, expecting it to bounce back, but it didn't), before I made any moves in a real game. But as some have said above, the biggest shame in this was for the mods not to broadcast the change widely, so no one, such as yourself, had to find out the hard way.

Without rehashing arguments over whether or not the old board really did provide help or not, as nimbleswitch's post #146 show, the chess.com admins do not consider a board that enforces "move legality" to be considered assistance or help in thinking.

From: erik: ...You are free to use an outside analysis board - you just can't use anything that does thinking for you. Move legality does not constitute thinking for you...

They have expressly said that a player can now choose to use his or her own outside analysis board with the old move-legality features.... which begs the question: why bother making the changes at all then?

Before, everyone was on the same equal playing field regarding using the old chess.com move-legality board. Now, some will use the new open board and others will be using their own private analysis board with the move legality feature -- c'est la guerre.

I was one of the members who suggested to change the analysis board to it's current setting. Simply because sometimes I have no idea how my opponent will respond to a particular move so I just skip their move and play my next move, I do this until my I have clear advantage, then I go back figure how could my opponent prevent this, and I keep repeating the process and editing my plan until it's unstoppable( I don't do this on every move of every game, but when I do I usually win).

fncll -- there's a big difference. i believe i lost the game because i was unaware that the analysis board rules *had changed*, not because it didn't show illegal moves. so your point doesn't stand.

SmithBrowne wonders why the change was made if the purpose was not to prevent inappropriate assistance.  It may never be clear to some of us, but for me it is crystal clear. The analysis board now works just like a physical board I might have used to analyze a position in correspondence chess just a few years ago.  As pvmike points out, that enables a lot of things a rules-based analysis board would not allow.  In my case, I like to be able to move my pieces about on the board as a way of visualizing potential positions that could develop, without working out the moves needed to get there until afterwards.  I prefer the new analysis board for that reason, and clearly the site administrators see this as an improvement too.  This may not settle the matter, but perhaps it will be helpful to those for whom the change seems completely senseless.

Neil

fncll

I don't mind if my opponents use a rules-based analysis board such as the one we all had access to here until recently.  Clearly, in some cases where my opponent is unfamiliar with the rules of Chess, this kind of tool would provide significant assistance, but for the average Joe, it hardly adds up to much at all.  Most of the people I have played here would receive far less aid from such a tool than they receive from doing the daily puzzle or having a cup of coffee (rather than a cold beer) just before logging in to Chess.com. 

I'm inclined to agree with the staff here on this question.

Neil

We're all aware that the old board is now back (sort of) - subject to whether or not a new checkbox ("Enforce legal moves" or something like that) is checked, right?  Hurrah. 

DeepGreene

I had not noticed.  Thanks for pointing this out.  Such changes could be better communicated -- they caught me by surprise with the previous change and once again I am surprised.  It's very good to see this feature being added - just wish it wasn't such a secret. 

Neil