Is chess the solution to Australia's education problems?

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Avatar of Bartleby73

All those great benefits of chess will not happen to the kids who do not want to play chess. Articles like this one will just make ambitious (or despaired?) parents send their unwilling kids to chess classes. They will be noisy and obnoxious, ruining the fun and concentration of those who want to play chess.

Even worse is the idea to make chess compulsory, as chess constitutes a mental cruelty which should not be imposed on unwilling victims.

And whether chess is really so benefitial for learning is another question. Maybe it is, but then kids aready need to have the ability and willingness to concentrate and solve problems in order to improve those abilities.

In other words: Parents, leave your brats at home! I don't want them in my class! I only want kids who want to be there!

Avatar of camter

I think that the concensus here is that Math and Chess are not closely related as skills. I could never figure why it was so in my case. I love Chess, but my skill at the game is fairly ordinary, no matter how much effort I put in.

After the initial boost I got from learning about development, when my wins increased enormously, I still found that It was hard to get to a higher level.

The factor mentioned here a lot is memory. I can solve problems given time. But Chess players, I mean REAL Chess players forget nothing of either a concrete position, or the essentials of it. I never met a Chess player at a loss for words, or who talked sloppily.

This leads me to wonder if Chess has a grammar and a structure similar to language. Language adapts to the concrete reality, and finds a way to express an idea clearly and accurately, a Chess skill. Chess players never seem to have to work all that hard at the board. All they require is not to be distracted from thinking and concentrating, or losing their thread of thought.

It is futile to force Chess on anyone. You either love it, or it bores you to death, and is at best a useless exercise in pushing wood around.

There is also a strong competitive element in Chess. Much as we like to say so, we are trying to smash the other fellow. No one deliberately loses. When the game is over, the opponent is a companion in the love of the game, but until clock fall or mate or exhaustion leading to a draw, it is battle.

Playing the board is for puzzles. Some people for whom the Competetive instinct is not strong will love Chess for its challenge to the mind will enjoy composing positions, but they are rare (and might I say needed), and are a special type of person.

Chess in schools as an optional activity is fine and to be desired, but for most children, it is something they are not interested in, never will be, and is not essential for education.

Does it help develop the brain. I am sure it does. 

The most useful aspect of Chess is that it does demand a certain tidiness of thought, and organizational skills. Most REAL Chess players have a capacity to see the big picture, to sort the trivial from the essential, and to see a plan through. 

Have I contradicted myself? Maybe, but compulsory Chess is not necessary, although to learn the rules is not that hard. But after that, the children who like it should be encouraged, and those who do not should move on. 

Avatar of camter

Not new to me, but new to all the other folks.

I reported you as a sandbagger, and Chess.com got back to me and said that they had carefully examined the case, and found that that would not take any action.

I accepted their decision, and am pleased to get on with life.

So, I am prepared to leave it there. What happens now is up to you.  

As for the worth of my contribution above, which I spent a lot of time, effort and thought on, I will leave the readers to decide for themselves. 

Avatar of Xticks

Chess is a nice analogy for logical thinking and good for 'look before you leap'. Teaching board games is a nice idea and there's chess clubs in many schools. Mine had one at least.

Programming might be much more beneficial than chess. And personal development would be unbeatable.

Avatar of LudRa95
Mandy711 wrote:

I don't know if including chess in school would improve the educational system. But getting students interested in chess would lessen their interest in TV and video games which is damaging their intellectual pursuit. There is only one way to find out if chess helps. Try.

They would watch chess TV and play chess on the computer.

Avatar of TheGrobe
kco wrote:

Are you asking whether Australia speak something else other than english ?

I thought it was well understood that they did.

Avatar of netzach

VB & surfing is the answer to all of Australia's problems.
Are you whinging NORSPAN20 ?

Avatar of Natalia_Pogonina

What I "love" most about this article is that chess ISN'T in the school curriculum in Russia... In some schools there are chess clubs, of course, but by far not in all of them. And a relatively low % of the students is attending.

Avatar of Irontiger
cal7102 wrote:

I believe a few people are looking at the link between chess and maths from the wrong perspective. Being good at maths does not make you a good chess player but research has shown that playing chess can improve maths skills. (...)

I would be interested by a link to a serious study that proves cause and effect and not just correlation, ie where some randomly chosen students are made play chess while others are made do something else.

If you propose free chess courses, the students who take it will probably have a better math ability than others, not because of the chess, but because if their parents push them to take part in that chess class they are very likely to push them to have good school results too.

As an example, in the high school (not sure about "high school" ? where do children from 10 to 15 go ?) I attended, one out of six classes were teaching German as primary second language, the other were teaching English or Spanish. The German class had something like 20% better results in maths, but also in literature and any other discipline. The reason is not that German makes better mathematicians (even support for literature at that level is dubious) but that the students whose parents want them to study German (harder than English or Spanish) are also working harder.

Avatar of cal7102
Natalia_Pogonina wrote:

What I "love" most about this article is that chess ISN'T in the school curriculum in Russia... In some schools there are chess clubs, of course, but by far not in all of them. And a relatively low % of the students is attending.

I'm sorry. I found a few sources that said it was, but obviously not.

Avatar of Bartleby73

A better way to improve Australia's problem with education is educating the children not to start smoking cannabis so early. The average child starts smoking dope when they are 14, many start with 12. This is not good. Cannabis has negative permanent effects on the developing brain of young people, making it harder for them to memorise and concentrate.

Avatar of Fear_ItseIf

I was under the impression that Australias education system was quite good. Maybe though it is because I live in sydney. Perhaps the other places (NT?) are not so good.

Avatar of kco

Is not good everywhere.

Avatar of Xticks

http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html

I doubt that treating symptoms of a system that has been put in place to produce workers instead of responsible strong adults really is the solution. Throw out a quarter of the stuff in school that people forget anyway since they never use it anymore and start strengthening the pupiles characters and their principles.

Avatar of Bartleby73

well put, Xticks. Schools only reward a certain type of people, others are left behind. But what should education look like? How do you want to strengthen their character? To which ends? How do you know what sticks to whom? I know for a fact that the stuff that did not stick with me stuck on others and vice versa.

For Australia, I'd say it would be a good start if the Victorian government would fulfil its promise to make their teachers the best paid in Australia. Also, it is apauling that private schools get more funding than public ones.

Avatar of Bartleby73

this is what is happening in Hungary regarding chess in schools:

 

http://juditpolgar.com/en/node/176

 

Ok, we dont have it that fancy here in Australia.

Avatar of Xticks
glarry002920 wrote:

In New Orleans…… I am a Delgado student looking to introduce fellow students to the world of chess. Summer Fest, an annual summer social event put on by the Student Government Association for Delgado students, will be a great opportunity. If there is anyone or any business out there who can sponsor two lawn chess sets and two large table sets for students to play on the day of the event, Please contact me at gfandersonlarry@gmail.com or call g. larry at 504-671-6001. Event date is 7/18/13 11:00am to 2:00pm. The event is open to students only, sorry. Thanks everybody!   

 

Since you sit in the US...try a kickstarter campaign to finance it. Just prepare to tell everybody about it and find some perks.

A thank you postcard with a chess riddle or a memorable chess anectote about Fischer or Steinitz, for example.

Avatar of Xticks
Bartleby73 wrote:

well put, Xticks. Schools only reward a certain type of people, others are left behind. But what should education look like? How do you want to strengthen their character? To which ends? How do you know what sticks to whom? I know for a fact that the stuff that did not stick with me stuck on others and vice versa.

For Australia, I'd say it would be a good start if the Victorian government would fulfil its promise to make their teachers the best paid in Australia. Also, it is apauling that private schools get more funding than public ones.

A good start is to read Dr. Stephen Covey's 'seven habits of highly effective people'.

The seven habits are:

1. Be proactive

2. Begin with the end in mind

3. Put first things first

4. Think win win

5. Seek first to understand, then to be understood

6. Synergize

7. Sharpen the saw

If you fill these principles with the intended meaning, it's quite a task to live them. A lot of stuff that Tony Robbins teaches makes also sense.

Books from Jim Rohn, Anthony Robbins and Stephen Covey are worth their money. Other names (more business / success oriented) are Jay Abraham, Brian Tracy, Robert Cialdini, Neil Fiore, David Allen...

In my dream school, the fat kids would learn to love sports and eat more healthily.

Avatar of netzach

Sounds like a load of bollocks to me. 'sharpen the saw'? hehe..

Avatar of Bartleby73
Xticks wrote:

In my dream school, the fat kids would learn to love sports and eat more healthily.

In my dream school, there would be no competition. Which completely contradicts to what I am doing. I was skinny and yet did not like sports. Why teach people to compete when they could cooperate?

I like chess as a mental struggle and for the problem solving. I don't like this whole "I am great and you are nothing" ideology that successful people are so happy about. If someone is on top of the ladder, it is only because others are on the bottom. How do they feel? This is something that competitive and successful people like the Polgars seem to forget about when they advocate chess.