computer Sven and Nelson -big difference or am I just bad?

There is a Nelson topic active right now in beginners area.   

Nelson is *weird*.  At the same time that he pulls beginner stunts and bad moves, he also displays great tactics for his level.   Its slow, but you can beat him by outlasting him and avoiding getting swindled -- he drops pieces and pawns and will always end up in a lost endgame if you do not let him cheeze you.   He can also be totally destroyed..  I got him in 18 moves (duplicate of the other thread):  after h6, his dumb 'lets mate the guy in 3 moves' attack has failed and he isnt sure how to proceed.  He drags his queen across, looking for an opportunity, but its not there: he invested it all in N&B vs f7 and after I defended this (h6 prevents Ng5) he has to find something new to do...  and his depth problem burns him.  He sees 2 knights for 1 rook.  He misses that recapturing BxN is bad for him, and that capture is the end of it.  He sees the mate coming and tosses the queen to slow it.  They need to teach AI to resign. 

They need to teach the AI to act like a regular player in endgames and not sack the queen in an endgame where its technically losing but still not trivial at all.

I'm so glad to hear that others find Nelson ridiculously difficult to beat!!  He has mashed me about 50 times now, whereas I can beat Sven.  Surely the algorithm has a problem?

Rough, but I finally got him!

Congrats! I am just able to occasionally beat him as black (or draw). Whoever said he makes mistakes but has advanced techniques (if that makes sense) sounds about right. I see now he thinks a move or two ahead of me. I especially have trouble with rook play. His endgame is not great from my experience, so if you build a lead, trade pieces and try to play an endgame. He is way better than me at weird checkmates like a pawn, bishop, and knight (or whatever). Trade material including the Queen, play solid defense otherwise, and play for an endgame. If I have a ton of pieces on the board and he is coming for me with three pieces I usually fail to see some weird checkmate like a bishop in the corner and a pawn preventing king escape. While he does not always make the best moves, sometimes he plays with frightening accuracy and I lose with him making no mistakes or blunders. I’ll play 32 moves to equality without a mistake and then blunder and it is over. I’m having way better luck as white, won three in a row. I suppose I should just be thankful that I have a challenging opponent who has made my game much better.  Very occasionally he screws up and makes a couple of blunders, but I can’t count on it like with Sven or 1200 bots. If every 100 points is twice as good roughly, I cannot imagine a 2800 player being 2^15 times harder to beat than Nelson. I think my odds are way better playing QB for a NFL team and handing the ball off. Someone tell me I can get to 1500 someday... I’m still new so there is that hope. I hate losing. All I want to do is maybe play some club chess in retirement and not embarrass myself. I figure it’s probably good for the brain.

I have just beaten him for the first time, after about 50 or 60 defeats.  I've been improving by blocking his usual moves and by trying to eliminate his queen early on, and today it worked!  He's not invincible, after all.

I can beat every single “Intermediate” the majority of the time except for the Nelson (and David, but that’s just due to my personal flaws in endgame blunders). I lose to Nelson around 90% of the time, but it’s not in the way most people say they lose to him. I destroy him in the early game, usually end up +3 or so most of the time, and then get clapped up in the late middle game to endgame. Should I focus on my endgame, and, if so, what is the best way?

Do you mind if I ask how? Was it an early mate or a slow and steady win? I can’t help but notice on your profile that you’re losing to 500’s, which makes you beating Nelson with a seeming lack of effort very interesting. I don’t mean to insult you, I’m truly just curious.

I finally got the measure of Nelson, beginning with 2 draws then a stalemate. Then broke through to win a few times. Most of the danger is in the early game, but you have to watch the middle and end despite some spurious moves. Next I suffered numerous humiliating defeats against Antonio, who I felt was significantly more solid than Nelson, but today managed to beat him for the first time.

Take control of the middle of the board. When Nelson pulls his queen out just defend the pawns with the knight and you’re pretty much good after that. Complete development and trade pieces and you’ll get him. 

I forgot to say this a few days ago. Only a day or two after I left this comment, I got a handle on him. A lot of it was truly weakness in endgame. I have been *grinding* puzzles and now my endgames and late games are much better in general. I beat him almost invariably if I play slow.

I just beat Nelson, i found beating him at his own game worked, if you push the queen out second move as he almost always does, you can trade queens early and sacrifice pieces if you can take his piece back which took yours. I did need to promote 2 pawns but it worked.

nelson op ngl

Trade Nelson's queen as early as possible. Believe me, it will make life a TON easier.

(mate in 2)

against nelson: win his queen and then simplify. he likes trading pieces. he's bad at endgames. he's also bad at developing his pieces.

if you're playing black and he goes 1.e3, block Qh5 immediately and go Nf6.

if he goes 1. e4, try these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huBgxuAeC0E&ab_channel=ChessTraps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY9zitJFglc&ab_channel=GothamChess

if you're playing as white, play 1. e4 and then Nf3 immediately to block Qh4. focus on your development, spot and stop the threats, and then punish nelson's lack of development.

you can try other openings as you get better and see what works and what doesn't. i learned these tactics and now can consistently beat nelson.

Sometimes he find the only way to defend himself in endgames even when i got good ideas, it's frustrating since you feel really hard it's an AI behind. I guess that's why playing against someone is better.

I'm pretty new to chess. Haven't broken 500 in live chess. But I've been playing the 1100 to 1300 bots. Beat them all with white and only just now beat Nelson with black. When I saw this post I though people would say Sven is harder than Nelson. I've had a lot more trouble with Sven. Maybe playing style and a little luck makes the difference? I seem to get too nervous in the live games.

Nelson!!!! I just found this thread and I'm so pleased to see I'm not alone. As others have said , he finds 'weird checkmates like a pawn, bishop, and knight'. When I began playing against him a couple of months ago, it was really annoying to lose every game, but now I think he will make me a better player, so I'm playing him often. I just beat him, but it took 3 queens! haha I didn't need the third one but he totally deserved it :-) 

I get the feeling he is thinking many moves ahead and the only reason for his lower rating is that he has imperfections built in. Statistically that may reduce his rating but if you don't encounter those imperfections then you're really playing a higher rated player. Someone has said he doesn't value Pawns, so I'll look out for that. Repeatedly playing Nelson is like clocking a video game, step by step, except there isn't only one path to remember!