Express if you like or do not like the new version of the site

The last week I have noticed a new trick V3 does to multiply its daily logins.

After the end of my everyday Tactics Trainer in V2 it used to send me to V3 renewal of my account and then by a simple click on back I was returning to V2

The last week things have changed, instead it logs me out and i have to log in again by V3 and then to go back to V2

I am thinking if this is a trick in order to tell Eric that there are even more people who log in V3 everyday

@Spacebux, saying the same thing over and over again but increasing the number of sentences and creating multiple posts isn't going to help you. You need to say something new to support your argument.

1. You absolutely have no idea how V2 was written, none whatsoever, so what you're doing is indeed making wild guesses. And you say you have some "information to know whether it is possible", may I know what that information is?

 "here is nothing to say they (the chess.com coders) could not have re-coded V2 with the same 'latest web technologies' (and also add in those same dreamy features) and kept the same user interface to which we are all accustomed " - I see, so you want an upgrade but you want the new site to look exactly like V2. So all of this is coming from your unwillingness to change and progress, it's not about V3, it's about the user interface. Why didn't I see that coming lol.

2,3: Oh so you can do paste game in ChessBase very similar to paste game in V3. But one thing, is ChessBase free? Well, Chess.com is. Why should I pay ChessBase for the same functionality that is offered in Chess.com for free? Busted.

"V3 → Open browser. Open chess.com. Login. Now where do I go? Unless you know WHERE to go in the Icon/Menu labyrinth, its not intuitive. Learn. → Analysis. → Load FEN/PGN. Begin Analysis. (7 steps)" -  If you're trying to analyze a game you've played online, I assume that you've already opened your browser and logged into Chess.com.  From there Learn->Analysis (1), Load pgn (2), Begin analysis (3), 3 steps, not seven.

3. "most of the time, I can tell myself where my blunders were." - I know you can, but I'm not as good as you in chess so that option comes in handy for me.

Sadly you're trying too hard to defend your points and it's not working out. Let me give you an example. Let's say I finish a 3 minute game and I want to do a quick, very quick blunder check (I know you don't need this, but some of us weak players need it), in V2 you submit the game for analysis and wait for at least 10 minutes. After about 10 minutes you get a message pointing out your mistakes and blunders, no graph, no table. But in V3, when you click on Analysis, a new tab opens instantly and the analysis is finished right before your eyes within a minute, you even get to see various statistics like average cp loss, CAPS score etc, it also gives you a graph that shows you the various key moments in the game which gives you a visual representation of how the game unfolded. V2's analysis is way too limited and primitive when compared to this.

4. Why are you using Martin's name now to support your arguments? I don't care what he thinks, V3's visual design is much better than V2's. Other than a few senior members here in the forums, everyone else accepts this, so does Erik. 

Immaterial? I think this feature is what will bring the social aspect back to Chess.com's live server after the removal of Main Hall. If tournaments similar to the ones for daily chess are organized in live chess, I see no reason why players who love limited time format will not login and play. Right now it's not possible because the club tournaments are only internal, but once we start having club vs club tourneys with fun trophies, along with variants like Bughouse, 3 check, KOTH, it's going to be a blast.

6,7: He says lack of logical argument. Duh. Making access of games unlimited to all members IS a very big improvement over V2, some people like you will feel jealous and left out, "Hey I used to pay money for that feature ", but no one can help it.

9. I'm not going to say anything further, V3's live chess is much more smoother than V2's live chess.

10. I thought you would have figured out how to use "Guess the move" feature after reading Martin's post. But guess not, you needed me to explain that to you once again, but I had better things to do. Sorry.

11,12,13, security: All your points start with, "this could've been easily implemented in V2". But my friend, adding a lot of new features to an old website is called an upgrade and that upgrade is called V3, the only thing that is bothering you is the interface but you will get used to it, if not then no one can help you. Hope this is clear.

Trends - This is one of the most important things a new user will look at before joining a site. He looks at Chess.com, Li....., Ch...24 and goes "Hey this Chess.com looks like a site from the 90's, Li.... and Ch...24 look way too cooler, I'll join the other two". And you give Facebook as an example, firstly Facebook is not a chess site and secondly if you didn't already know, Facebook is dying and some researchers predict that it will lose 80% of it's users by 2017, you can ever try a google search, it pays to do some research before writing something doesn't it? So much for your argument.

I don't like the new version, the chessboard is not very nice, and the site is too "childish" and with too many useless features for me.

if it looks like a duck,quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck,it probaby is a duck .(in reply to Nimzo post paragraph one)

DUD

I think I posted this before but that was a requested feature and for at least the last 6 months, those can be turned off in settings. Not that it is directly pertinent to your argument 

I also don't find v3 Live extremely different in the information it provides. Layout is a little different, of course, but I don't find that it is worse than v2.

After 300 votes it is obvious V2 supporters are more than 50% 

http://www.strawpoll.me/11933585

Facebook changes things all the time. Not huge overarching changes, like v3, but changes. I know Pages interfaces have changed some recently (past few months). 

I'm pretty sure I can come up with some specific visual changes made by FB over the past 4 years, though it really isn't pertinent to this discussion so much. 

The only obvious thing is that more v2 people voted, though, I agree that people are comfortable what they are used to and even if 99% of active site users voted, v2 would likely still be ahead by some margin.

As I have posted before, liking one version more than another doesn't mean that v2's retirement will cause a lot of people to leave.

The only obvious thing is that more V2 people voted ?!?!

Is that what you read?

How many members of the staff voted there ?

i will tell you what is the obvious thing. It is that you deny to see the eminent rejection of more than half the people of the site to the new version

and If the site is not afraid of the truth is very easy to send this poll to every member of the 16 millions in one day and give us the results

i guess it will be more differrence than that

a little different like the Titanic from a go cart

I won't leave either, I just won't pay for this new version. 

It's been 6 months now that i want to pay for a platinum membership in order to enjoy more tournaments and create things like in the past.

But the only reason i don't do that is this continuous threat of imposing V3 on us no matter of our disagreement. I am waiting to see for such a long time if V2 stays in order to buy a membership

all this time i cannot enjoy fully chess,com only because of this V3 suppression, and i hate to be forced to like something

this equation #%*& V111 is based on the, bourne identity( triology) and then a sequel its much like V3 ,not easily grasped and certainly not for us plebs to reason why ,and in the name of the father the son and the holy ghost (the blessed mysteries:-)

its primary function is not initially apparent to the average batchelor of arts and its inate joy can only be experienced by our elders and betters e,g, staff and moderators.This new V3 set up also can stimulate the psychic metabolism for those yogis who are currently astral travelling through Tibet and beyond our mortal coil, If and when you figure out what is meant by this basic meme conundrum,or for that matter 'Duckworth Rules ,OK' you,ll be well on your way to figuring out E= Mc2 ! but V3 may take a tad longer.See also the Big Bang Theory ,its also comedic by nature

Bellerophontis wrote:

After 300 votes it is obvious V2 supporters are more than 50% 

I can't tell how many staff voted there or how many people voted more than once (which would be trivial to do). Plus, staff has metrics too. They can see how many people actively choose to switch to v2, how many people sign up each day, how many stay on the site.

Assuming the poll held to all active members, at the same percentages, dropping v3 isn't really a rejection of those members. Mainly because a business isn't a democracy but the vast majority of those members, while preferring v2, will still use v3 and stay on site. Because the vase majority of the site is still here and works, just like it does in v2.

Maybe. Or maybe the same percentage that pay now, will pay when v2 is gone. Or maybe more people will get premium and will completely offset any losses. Only time will tell and we will never know for sure. Unless the doomsayers are right

Dang, I keep posting things other than answers to questions .... good thing I don't make any New Year's resolutions .... I'm terrible at it

The big elephant in the room is the poor quality of randomly matched games. No one that I know of wants to pay money to play a fixed game. I understand this situation is different for those who play only against trusted friends or teams. V3 did nothing to address this very fundamental issue. It is the core value of Chess or any game for that matter. It is the single reason that I have not subscribed to Chess.com or any chess site for that matter. Why should I subscribe to play against a computer when such play is readily available for free?

So this is my customer's perspective. Now the question is, is there anything in V3 that would induce new subscriptions or promote resubscriptions? So has anyone described or resubscribed because of V3? If so why? Otherwise, it was just money down the drain, money that could have been spent on a great player rating system that could have increase the quality of game play.

FWIW, the tablet ergonomics and functionality for the current version is absolutely abysmal. Better to do one thing right than a thousand things wrong.

...LOL.  The quickest path to the Exit from the argument, eh, Nimzo? 🚪

Run buddy, run.

You're just not interested in an objective discussion; Cultists have a way of running from a logical argument. 👍  You made me laugh, though.  Thank you for that.

" I see, so you want an upgrade but you want the new site to look exactly like V2. So all of this is coming from your unwillingness to change and progress, it's not about V3, it's about the user interface. Why didn't I see that coming lol."

Did you not see the myriad of posts in this forum from the get-go about users complaining about the layout of the User Interface?  Did you selectively not read ~30-40% of the posts here?

As long as we're tossing labels, should I label you?  I'm not much of one for name-calling, but in your world that seems pertinent to supporting one's argument... .    V3 is not 'progress'---where a road heads off a cliff into a ravine.  You live in some Fantasy World where every new version of every software program ever written is deemed "progressive".  Don't you?  News for you: not every new idea, invention, or even program is better than what preceeded it.  That's not called being a Progress-Denier; that's called being Objective.  Big difference.  Something you and the rest of the crew here could stand a lesson in: objectivity.

2,3: Oh so you can do paste game in ChessBase very similar to paste game in V3. But one thing, is ChessBase free? Well, Chess.com is.

Sorry, since cost (i.e., free stuff) seems to be a huge thing in your life, last I checked, SCID was free, as are  other options.  I just happened to pick ChessBase as an example.  And, fwiw, chess.com is not 'free'.  Ask Erik how much he pays out on a monthly basis.  Those costs are covered .. how?

If you're trying to analyze a game you've played online, I assume that you've already opened your browser and logged into Chess.com.  From there Learn->Analysis (1), Load pgn (2), Begin analysis (3), 3 steps (4 actually), not seven.

LOL.  You keep changing the conditions of the base argument.  That's like moving the goal for the opposing team and constantly deriding them for not being able to hit the goal.  Okay, per your meager attempt to have that program already open, I could also then assume one has ChessBase already open.  Then I'm down to 2 steps: paste⇒analyize.   oh snap

.. in V2 you submit the game for analysis and wait for at least 10 minutes.

The premise here is incorrect.  No, it is not 10 minutes.  The last one I did with ~60 moves took chess.com about ~1 minute to process. 

.. in V3, when you click on Analysis, a new tab opens instantly and the analysis is finished right before your eyes within a minute, you even get to see various statistics like average cp loss, CAPS score etc, it also gives you a graph that shows you the various key moments in the game which gives you a visual representation of how the game unfolded. V2's analysis is way too limited and primitive when compared to this.

Okay you had me there.  I actually had to go research what the thunder 'average cp loss' meant.  Found the definition on another chess site, oddly enough.. thought that was mildly amusing.  Okay, average cp (centipawn) loss, is evident in V2's analysis as well.. so no point there.  Ditto for CAPS score.  I had to re-read Danny's description of this numerous times to just understand what it supposedly is and does.  And, I'm not buying it.  Without getting in to too much of a tangent, CAPS score has nothing to do with analyzing ones game for better play.  CAPS just tabulates whether you made the most appropriate moves whatever % of the time---I can tell you how to do that easily with the V2 engine analysis; from 100%, subtract % of inconsistencies, mistakes, & blunders shown in the V2 analysis.  I hope you can still do simple math after a 3-minute game.  And, yeah, V2 gives me plenty of visual representations of how the game unfolded.   Thanks for playing.

4. Why are you using Martin's name now to support your arguments? I don't care what he thinks, V3's visual design is much better than V2's. Other than a few senior members here in the forums, everyone else accepts this, so does Erik.

Why indeed.  Probably because Martin is one of the main V3 protagonists in this forum.  Sigh..  steep learning curve, isn't it? 

The senior members' opinions do not concern me, Nimzo.  I am looking for objective discussion.  Do you think the senior members would be able to provide unbiased discussion?  We've already seen how hard it is for the moderators themselves to provide such; and now they do not even claim to be unbiased.  Why would you put weight in anything the 'senior members' of the staff have to say about any of this?

Immaterial? I think this feature is what will bring the social aspect back to Chess.com's live server after the removal of Main Hall. If tournaments similar to the ones for daily chess are organized in live chess, I see no reason why players who love limited time format will not login and play.

You have selective reading skills; you need to go back and re-read what I said about Live Club Tournaments and what I've seen in trying to organize such.  I know "you see no reason", but I'm telling you from personal experience.  I gave 'logical' arguments to support my statements.  You want to turn and look the other way so you "see no reason".  Great logic. (sarcasm)

6,7: He says lack of logical argument. Duh. Making access of games unlimited to all members IS a very big improvement over V2, some people like you will feel jealous and left out, "Hey I used to pay money for that feature ", but no one can help it.

Flattering way of conceding the point.  Thanks for playing.

9. I'm not going to say anything further, V3's live chess is much more smoother than V2's live chess.

Another concession.  Thanks for playing.

10. I thought you would have figured out how to use "Guess the move" feature after reading Martin's post. But guess not, you needed me to explain that to you once again, but I had better things to do. Sorry.

More selective reading..  concession #3.

11,12,13, security: All your points start with, "this could've been easily implemented in V2". But my friend, adding a lot of new features to an old website is called an upgrade and that upgrade is called V3, the only thing that is bothering you is the interface but you will get used to it, if not then no one can help you. Hope this is clear.

I'll take that as another concession for all those points.  Erik made a decision and decided to move to a new interface.  Not all upgrades are improvements; for example, Windows ME was a classic blunder---new interface, lots of great new features, but buggy and performance stricken as heck.  Microsoft did not even bother to fix most of it, they just left it and those poor users for dead.  V3 is not an upgrade in many areas, which you've already conceded.

Trends - This is one of the most important things a new user will look at before joining a site. He looks at Chess.com, Li....., Ch...24 and goes "Hey this Chess.com looks like a site from the 90's, Li.... and Ch...24 look way too cooler, I'll join the other two". And you give Facebook as an example, firstly Facebook is not a chess site and secondly if you didn't already know, Facebook is dying and some researchers predict that it will lose 80% of it's users by 2017, you can ever try a google search, it pays to do some research before writing something doesn't it? So much for your argument.

No, you just solidified my argument.  Facebook is NOT dying because of its interface or lack of 'newness'.  Facebook is dying for a host of reasons:

1. FB depends on user content being fresh and interesting for users to want to be there.  User content drives social sites like Twitter, FB, Instagram, etc.  None of those sites has revamped their User Interface in years, mind you.  None of them.
2. More & more people are realizing the dangers of hanging their lives out for all to see in social media.  Yahoo!'s lost millions of accounts to hackers, at least I was lucky enough to not put personal stuff in my Y! profile a decade ago when I signed up.  Now FB acts like they are gov't and wants me to furnish them with government ID to verify my account with them!?!?!  Are they insane?? 
   
3. FB thumbed their noses at a large chunk of their users when they pulled a Kaepernick and decided to favor one side of the political spectrum.

Show me an example of a major site that completely revamped their User Interface and did well. 

As was pointed out in another site, the #s of logins in V3 is skewed at the moment.  The success of this site has shifted---away from online user-driven content.  That was by design.  There is no doubt in my mind, that Erik believes the success of this site is in 'clicks', not user driven content.

He'll find out the hard way...and probably blame the wrong reason for its demise on the way down.

I had a similar discussion about 10-12 years ago when I was interviewing with one of Sega's software game development companies.  (Most games are not developed by Nintendo, Sony, MS, Sega, etc.  Other companies write games, like Electric Arts (EA).)  I was debating with the hard-heads over there the future of gaming was in multi-user games, not single-player stuff any more.  They didn't want to hear it, I walked away.  That company is no more now (though, honestly, it may be more to their relationship with Sega and Sega not doing well in the mid- to late-2000s than their lack of interesting game software).

Good luck to you and your team, Nimzo.  Your discussion points and style have revealed plenty about you and how Erik has come to his conclusion.

As JustADude correctly pointed out, this whole discussion is mute.  Doesn't matter how many here voice discontent with V3, the decision has been made.  Sad. 

I prefer the original design, its options and graphics to the most-recent version. I always go through the unnecessarily aggravating two-step approach to confirm that, yes indeed, I am serious about wanting to be transferred from the sign-in (new) version to the original one.