etchicsgradient: My reference to the different rating system with "its own colour for 1min bullet games without premove" is obviously exaggerated and inspired by the troll who lives there [no hyperlink here].
Although I would prefer 1min bullet games (with or without premove) to not be considered part of anybodys "true" rating. If u watch peoples live profiles its amazing how much the bullet-rating and their normal ratings diverce. Bulletrating should be like an apropo.
I like the idea. However, there will be a need for a separate rating system, because, like it or not, premove DOES improve your ratings... or most probably... or it actually really does =P whether it does or not, it shouldn't be compared to the np games, as it is different, so a need for a seperate rating system needs to be established.
Ok ive just read what puchiko wrote... hmmm. That becomes a problem, but im all for the 4th rating really. its not that hard; long, blitz, bullet and bullet np.
That being said, if you're REALLY critical, there should be np for blitz too but that would be ridicolous lol.
So maybe do what puchico wants? There are quite a lot of ratings already, standard; long, blitz, bullet etc. tactics trainer too! Depends really. Clasically, theres only be 3 variants of live chess - long blitz bullet, so a 4th would be strangeish? mmm gaah i dunno.
Premove, in chess, refers to the act of making a move before it is your turn to move. This option is available on chess websites such as theInternet Chess Club and FICS. To use premove, you simply make a move in the same way you would move if it was your turn. After your opponent makes his move, your move will be made in 0.1 seconds, assuming that the move is legal. Premove is not available in OTB (Over the board) chess.
uh oh... here comes the uncompromise extremist =P
@ShadowlKnight, I may have stated this before so apologies if I'm repeating myself - but while I appreciate where you're coming from, I honestly don't see the need for a separate rating for np bullet games.
The fact remains that we already have non-premove players and games in the current ratings mix for Bullet (with less of an influence +2000, but its still there)
Further, both 1 0 and 2 1 time controls affect the same Bullet rating and I'd argue that there are far greater differences between these two controls than there is between premove matches and non-premove matches at either time control.
Given this, a typical Bullet rating covers far more than just 1 0 Bullet with or without premoves... just a thought.
cheers,
Your right... so the bullet system now isn't very good either =P But is there anyway to improve this? Im not sure, might as well leave it alone then. Create the option for premove games and just go. You've converted me =)
lightening should be 1 minute, if we're going for the 5 ratings.
Only choice should be 1 min and 2 min, 3 min, 5 min, 10 min etc
Any extra time per move automatically makes it NOT lightning.
I agree that a different rating for a 1 0 and a 2 1 might be a good idea. But regarding premoves, do any of you anti-premovers honestly think it's a good idea to play a 1 0 without premoves? There would basically be no checkmates and every game would be won on time regardless of how good or bad your position is.
haha I agree in principle that players should have a choice, but Id never play a game without premoves. I think it's an effective way to overcome my opponents lag and it allows you to win in a winning position when you just have a few seconds left.
I agree that a different rating for a 1 0 and a 2 1 might be a good idea. But regarding premoves, do any of you anti-premovers honestly think it's a good idea to play a 1 0 without premoves? There would basically be no checkmates and every game would be won on time regardless of how good or bad your position is.
I always play bullet with premoves disabled, and I honestly don't see any evidence of this at all. Even with premoves, if a position is lost then players have a tendency in bullet to let the clock run out in the dying seconds, rather than allow a mate.
In fact, I have been arguing the exact opposite. To my mind, premvoes give the advantage to the player with the bad position, by allowing them to run..and run.. and run.
I agree that a different rating for a 1 0 and a 2 1 might be a good idea. But regarding premoves, do any of you anti-premovers honestly think it's a good idea to play a 1 0 without premoves? There would basically be no checkmates and every game would be won on time regardless of how good or bad your position is.
I always play bullet with premoves disabled, and I honestly don't see any evidence of this at all. Even with premoves, if a position is lost then players have a tendency in bullet to let the clock run out in the dying seconds, rather than allow a mate.
In fact, I have been arguing the exact opposite. To my mind, premvoes give the advantage to the player with the bad position, by allowing them to run..and run.. and run.
definetly, but if you have premoves yourself you can overcome this =) hehe, and if you dissapprove of premoves... well tough -.- you ARE disadvantaged (that is if you don't use them). chess.com problem flag now xD
Yet mating moves often require actual thought-so pre-moves work far better for the losing side, who can play random moves. A better way to counter losing in a clearly won position is playing with an increment, even a few seconds per move is enough to win a clearly won position.
heh... er...no. Thats kinda the whole point of this thread being in the Suggestions forum :_) For some of us, "well tough" is a poor option, and we could do better...
And thats why its well tough "for now". I agree chess.com should change it, get some staff to view this? Or have they given up on this topic are ignoring it? I don't know, but probably not the latter. I hope we get some staff input soon, see what they say. or techincal staff, or whoever is responsible etc.
Im guessing changes must be agreed with like the owner and several staff of chess.com first, so it might take a while.
I'm confused why one would purpose to tell me how I can play my game. Why do you care if I use premoves? Why SHOULD you care?
Especially given that you can just as easily move that quickly without pre-move (how would someone even know if it's pre-move, or just you moving quickly?), faster even if it's OTB:
That said, I think that this proposal has merit as a good compromise that would allow everyone to have their preferences with respect to pre-move met.
I'm confused why one would purpose to tell me how I can play my game. Why do you care if I use premoves? Why SHOULD you care?
Pre-moves aren't available in OTB blitz, and they alter the nature of the game significantly. Your opponent would care if your pawn could suddenly capture straightforward - for some people, pre-moves are a change of a similar scale.
I don't know whether pre-moves will eventually overtake internet chess. Perhaps we'll one day see them as a normal, integral part of the game. But when someone suggested (14th century) that a pawn should move forward two squares on its first move, I imagine their opponent cared quite passionately. I'm not sure whether pre-moves are a change as beneficial as that, but you have to understand-when you use a non-universal rule, someone accustomed to a different rule set will naturally object.
Your right... so the bullet system now isn't very good either =P But is there anyway to improve this? Im not sure, might as well leave it alone then. Create the option for premove games and just go. You've converted me =)
I think the bullet system right now is fine, I see no problems with it. And yes in fact to the other person above me, if you wanted to in OTB you could just decide to make a move regardless of what your opponent does, go for it, and make the move extremely quickly. That video that was posted shows you can move faster than premoves in OTB blitz if you really need to. There really is no unfair advantage with premoves because you can choose to use it. And if you dislike the disadvantage that blindly moving brings (lots of blunders), you can disable it.
If you guys really feel that premoves give that much of an advantage in a bullet game, you should do everything you can to master it and see just how much of an advantage it gives. It's really not that useful unless you know what you're doing and can predict with a high degree of accuracy your opponents moves, and even then you are going to blunder away games. I only use it in desperation when I have something like 4 seconds left. But like I said if you think it's a huge advantage you should be doing everything you can to use it.
I'm confused why one would purpose to tell me how I can play my game. Why do you care if I use premoves? Why SHOULD you care?
Pre-moves aren't available in OTB blitz, and they alter the nature of the game significantly. Your opponent would care if your pawn could suddenly capture straightforward - for some people, pre-moves are a change of a similar scale.
I don't know whether pre-moves will eventually overtake internet chess. Perhaps we'll one day see them as a normal, integral part of the game. But when someone suggested (14th century) that a pawn should move forward two squares on its first move, I imagine their opponent cared quite passionately. I'm not sure whether pre-moves are a change as beneficial as that, but you have to understand-when you use a non-universal rule, someone accustomed to a different rule set will naturally object.
Now I'm even more confused... how does they change the nature of the game? If anything, they are a HUGE risk for someone who doesn't konw what they are doing, and an advantage to said person's opponent. How is this any different than a person playing OTB bullet chess picking up a piece ON THEIR OPPONENTS TURN and having it in their hand ready to move after their opponent? If you watch high-level bullet chess, that happens all the time.
Anyone who thinks that premoves change the game as much as a pawn being able to take forward would change the game doesn't understand premoves.
This is a very interesting discussion. I don't feel strongly about pre-moves, as I never play bullet. However, I must express my horror at adding a fourth rating.
First of all, a newcomer is very confused by the difference between live and on-line, and the three different ratings in live (questions "why did my [standard] rating not change when I won a [bullet] game"? are on a daily basis, and almost every friend to whom I've shown chess.com had the same question).
More importantly, a rating is more accurate if the player plays more games. If there were two separate rating systems (premove, no-premove), players who'd play both types of games (either they have no preference, or they didn't find a seek that'd match theirs) would wind up with two ratings, both less accurate than the current unified rating.
However, the change itself sounds very reasonable-premoves, are afterall, a bit of a variant. So I'm all for making them optional, but please... no fourth rating!