Premoves - Chess Forums

Chillkroete777

Jul 2, 2018

0

#1

The idea behind premoves is to lose no time after your opponents move. But here on chess.com you lose time even if you made a premove. This leads to absurd situation like having 1 second against 2 second and having queen and king v king but despite that not being able to win because even if you premove the next ten moves until the checkmate you would flag and only get a draw. Other websites have implemented premoves properly such that you don't lose time when making a premove.

notmtwain

Jul 2, 2018

0

#2

Chillkroete777 wrote:

The idea behind premoves is to lose no time after your opponents move. But here on chess.com you lose time even if you made a premove. This leads to absurd situation like having 1 second against 2 second and having queen and king v king but despite that not being able to win because even if you premove the next ten moves until the checkmate you would flag and only get a draw. Other websites have implemented premoves properly such that you don't lose time when making a premove.

Try playing 10 moves in a real game in 1 second.

I recall when sites used to let premoves take no time. Those on the other side thought it was ridiculous that 10 moves could be made in no time.

The current 0.1 second minimum is a compromise. It should probably be higher to reflect real blitz and bullet.

In real games, you aren't allowed to play your moves with one hand and the other on the clock. You couldn't play 10 moves in 1 second even if that were allowed.

You want something even more absurd than that- playing moves where you are allowed to hit the clock before you make the physical move.

Chillkroete777

Jul 2, 2018

0

#3

It's internet chess, not otb chess. Bullet is not a reflection of otb chess. I don't get the point of “you can't make 10 moves in one second“. Of course that's true for otb chess. But again: this is the internet. If you want it to be real, should you “press“ a clock? Because in real chess you have to do that...

notmtwain

Jul 3, 2018

0

#4

From: https://www.chess.com/forum/view/help-support/mate-in-one-queued-in-premove-and-still-lose-on-time

erik

May 15, 2014#16

Hey SmyslovFan - sorry to hear about your situation - very frustrating!

Let me address how it works:

First off, premoves take 0.1 seconds. That is what has been preferred and agreed upon by most professional players we have consulted on the topic. They prefer .1 to .0 for premove. This is also what other chess servers do.

Secondly, internet lag STINKS :/ Unfortunately it is a part of the internet. Packets of information can take some time to travel around. We do our best to optimize everything we can on our end so that once it hits our servers it is instantaneous.

Here is a graph of the time it takes for chess moves to arrive in the US: http://i.imgur.com/BhCDj1V.png

Everything black is worse than 2 seconds. That means about 99% of moves take less than 2 seconds to reach the server.

And, for < 2 seconds, we give back time taken for lag. So, if you move in .5 seconds, but it takes 2 seconds to reach us, your clock will only subtract .5 seconds. But if it takes 5 seconds to reach us, then 3.5 seconds will come off your clock.

Does that make sense? The reason we do that is that we cannot give infinite lag forgiveness to users for a few key reasons: 1. to prevent people from using intentional internet lag programs to improve their advantage. People actually have software that will intentionally "lag" their internet so they have more time to think on their clock! And 2. if someone has a really bad connection (say 5 second lag each move), and you want to play a blitz game, do you really want it to feel more like a 10 minute game?

That's why we cap the lag at 2 seconds maximum. So, in this unfortunate case, for whatever reason on the internets, it was more than 2 seconds to reach us :/

That said, we are considering making a tiny tweak to this model: give everyone ONE move where they get more than 2 seconds of lag (maybe 5-10?), especially if it's a last move in the game. But then again, put yourself in the shoes of your opponent: you are playing someone who's clock is JUST about to run out. You move, and then.... wait.... wait... what's going on.... 9 seconds later they checkmate you when they only had 1 second left on their clock. Then we are going to get a bunch of complaints on the forums that "people are cheating by extending their clock at the end of their game!!" or "My opponent had 1 second on their clock but took 10 seconds to move!"

It's kind of a lose-lose situation. We get a lot of those on Chess.com :/ We lose if we over-moderate the forums. We lose if we under-moderate them. We lose if we adjust for lag. We lose if we don't adjust for lag. We lose if we serve ads. We lose if we don't serve ads. Ah the joys of running a website.... :D

Chillkroete777

Jul 4, 2018

0

#5

First off, premoves take 0.1 seconds. That is what has been preferred and agreed upon by most professional players we have consulted on the topic. They prefer .1 to .0 for premove. This is also what other chess servers do.

Except lichess. chess24 just takes off the entire lag which is way worse than what chess.com does. And I'm surprised that most professional players prefer that. Eric Hansen seems to get extremely upset on his streams when he flags one move before he can mate his opponent. And Carlsen even pulled out of the SCC because he doesn't like to play on chess.com, he "feels like his pieces are in the mud", when I remember it correctly.

testaaaaa

Jul 4, 2018

0

#6

my wifi is so slow takes me 1 second to premove, only works with obvious recaptures so im not really feeling your 0.1 second pain

testaaaaa

Jul 4, 2018

0

#7

if you make 10 moves in one second OTB make sure to upload it on yt

breaker90

Jul 4, 2018

0

#8

Chillkroete777 wrote:

First off, premoves take 0.1 seconds. That is what has been preferred and agreed upon by most professional players we have consulted on the topic. They prefer .1 to .0 for premove. This is also what other chess servers do.

Except lichess. chess24 just takes off the entire lag which is way worse than what chess.com does. And I'm surprised that most professional players prefer that. Eric Hansen seems to get extremely upset on his streams when he flags one move before he can mate his opponent. And Carlsen even pulled out of the SCC because he doesn't like to play on chess.com, he "feels like his pieces are in the mud", when I remember it correctly.

Why do you feel premove should take no time off your clock?

Chillkroete777

Jul 4, 2018

0

#9

testaaaaa hat geschrieben:

if you make 10 moves in one second OTB make sure to upload it on yt

then please upload a video of making a premove OTB. You can't compare internet chess to otb chess. That's just not possible. And a premove is a move that is immediately executed after my opponent moved no matter what his move was. Why SHOULD that take time?

testaaaaa

Jul 4, 2018

0

#10

Chillkroete777 wrote:

testaaaaa hat geschrieben:

if you make 10 moves in one second OTB make sure to upload it on yt

then please upload a video of making a premove OTB. You can't compare internet chess to otb chess. That's just not possible. And a premove is a move that is immediately executed after my opponent moved no matter what his move was. Why SHOULD that take time?

i was not serious chillkroete sorry the irony did not came through, btw i saw you in fionas tournament 2 times you are a very fast player kudos

JamesAgadir

Jul 4, 2018

0

#11

Premove in OTB is when you play a move as soon as your opponent does regardless of what your opponent plays. The solution is simple play faster I play slower time controls. 0.1 is true for everyone so if you lose because of it it's your fault.

testaaaaa

Jul 4, 2018

0

#12

and chillkroete in case you wonder why i remember you had little dispute with her because you flagged her rook vs rook and she was quite angrybecause of that . you offered the draw though but she didnt see it

Chillkroete777

Jul 4, 2018

0

#13

JamesAgadir hat geschrieben:

Premove in OTB is when you play a move as soon as your opponent does regardless of what your opponent plays. The solution is simple play faster I play slower time controls. 0.1 is true for everyone so if you lose because of it it's your fault.

That's not a premove because you have time to think unless you have a reaction time of 0 seconds and can move your hand with the speed of light which I highly doubt.

Not really, if I end up with 1 against 2 seconds and premove the next 10 moves to mate, I lose on chess.com, but on lichess I'd win.

Chillkroete777

Jul 4, 2018

0

#14

testaaaaa hat geschrieben:

and chillkroete in case you wonder why i remember you had little dispute with her because you flagged her rook vs rook and she was quite angrybecause of that . you offered the draw though but she didnt see it

Yes, I remember that. I thought everyone who plays 1+0 agrees that if he doesn't play fast enough or makes enough premoves, you get flagged. But seemingly that's not the case.

JamesAgadir

Jul 4, 2018

0

#15

Chillkroete777 a écrit :

JamesAgadir hat geschrieben:

Premove in OTB is when you play a move as soon as your opponent does regardless of what your opponent plays. The solution is simple play faster I play slower time controls. 0.1 is true for everyone so if you lose because of it it's your fault.

That's not a premove because you have time to think unless you have a reaction time of 0 seconds and can move your hand with the speed of light which I highly doubt.

Not really, if I end up with 1 against 2 seconds and premove the next 10 moves to mate, I lose on chess.com, but on lichess I'd win.

That's exactly my point. Premoves take a fraction of a second in OTB. So you lose that time on chess.com. also comparing sites is against the TOS

Chillkroete777

Jul 5, 2018

0

#16

Once again: This is not otb. In otb there are no premoves, you have to hit the clock, etc. You can't make internet chess like otb. That's unrealistic.

Why is it against the TOS to compare sites? Allegedly most professional players want the 0.1 delay but then why are they happily playing on another server. It has to be possible to point that out. Without other servers this discussion would be pointless but now it can be pointed out how premoves work.

testaaaaa

Jul 5, 2018

0

#17

Chillkroete777 wrote:

testaaaaa hat geschrieben:

and chillkroete in case you wonder why i remember you had little dispute with her because you flagged her rook vs rook and she was quite angrybecause of that . you offered the draw though but she didnt see it

Yes, I remember that. I thought everyone who plays 1+0 agrees that if he doesn't play fast enough or makes enough premoves, you get flagged. But seemingly that's not the case.

I agree, i hope she does the blitz time controls more often, then she can also stream better