Tactic Trainer Timer needs to be removed

I also dislike the timer. Too often, it pressures me into making a rush decision, and getting problems wrong.

Drak0dan wrote:

I also dislike the timer. Too often, it pressures me into making a rush decision, and getting problems wrong.

As Danny Rensch would say, that's a you problem.

Question.  Is anyone actually opposed to there being a timed and a non timed rating option?

Wrong. I didn't argue anything.

I said

"Actually the option of a timed or untimed already exists. Just only for paying members."

This is a fact. You can choose what rating level you want to select from and your ratings aren't affected. That little timer ticking away at the top isn't your timer for unrated problems. That just counts how long you take and has nothing to do with your rating score since you don't even have a rating when you turn off the rated problems. Even Scottrf posted just under that untimed here doesn't give you a rating. You should check your facts before you post dumb replies of going to other sites as a solution. I wasn't looking for advice from you anyway. I was stating that the site shouldn't use it a metric for scoring. If you want to track your speed with their clock, fine, but it shouldn't be a measure of how good you are.

Your belief that it is an integral part of TT is solely an opinion. Something you don't seem to understand.

And your "advice" didn't supported my initial suggestion. If you had understood what I wrote then you would know that my suggestion was to take the timer out of scoring, not just turn it on and off.

Ziryab wrote:

I am a paying member, and I do not have the option of untimed rated problems here on chess.com.

You added the word rated to change what I said. So again, you don't understand what it is that I'm talking about.

This is the second time you trolled a post I made by confusing your opinion with facts and try to start an argument. I don't want your "help". Just go away.

I also believe it is an integral part of TT. I really like the way the algorithm self-corrects. If there were an untied rated option, or if they removed the clock altogether, you would get a bunch of perfectly playing cheaters up at the top. You would get some people who would analyze positions at very great length before answering. In short, you would have a TT which helps your correspondence skills. Speaking for myself, I like the timing part of it, because my main goal is OTB chess, which has time management as an essential skill. Sometimes you'll find yourself with 3 or 4 minutes for 17 moves or something, and then you realize (during your opponent's move) that this gaves you under 15 seconds per move...

Yes, I totally agree!!!!!!!!!! Aren't you supposed to take your time on these things? What's the point of getting a problem right in ten seconds rather than 60? :D

Chess should be about taking your time, not rushing through a tactic: I often feel pressured to keep my rating up and to get them right, that I don't take my time and constantly get them wrong.

 This is a good forum topic! :D

You're worrying about a handful of people that are cheating against TT? Who would care? Let them.

As for time management in OTB games, all you're doing is not analyzing a position for very long because you know you're running out of time. The idea that that would make you better at calculating is unlikely.

If you want the timer still there, the site could keep it for those that care about that. I'm only saying that it shouldn't be reflected in your scoring as far as learning goes.

The only real thing that the TT rating does is decide what kind of problems you are delivered. There are far too many people on here whose rating rose to a certain level and havn't gone up any since. It's not that they aren't good at them, they just aren't faster then the average player who makes them.

Litteraly if you are givin a 5 move problem and race through the first 4 moves and miss the critical last one, you will get a higher rating than the person that took the time to calculate that the sequence was valid at all and got all the moves correct. I don't see how this improves people's games any.

In fact I just played a problem just now and intentionally missed the second move of two and still got a positive score since the I played the first move very fast. It was on a much easier tactic level so I would know that I coud do that just to see if that would happen.

www.chess.com/tactics/server?id=0108474

i want tactic trainer with time cuz u know how easy or difficult it is

But the time only measures your speed relative to others, not how difficult it is. Without the time component, the rating for the problem would still have value on its difficulty. In fact, it would be more accurate since people do play chess at different speeds and would allow players to think about the problem.

If players want to rush though a problem, they can do that all they want, and even compare their time to others, but why should that affect all players who don't see that as a useful learning tool.

How do you think a problem could be rated if there's no timer?

Some people would try to make it in 5 seconds, others would take 5 minutes (or even cheating with an engine) and this would totally mess up the problem rating. There would not be a consistency between the "efforts" players put in, and the rating would be random (e.g. based on how many fast movers vs correspondence players attempted it).

The time pressure is necessary to rate the problems.

How do you think your rating is figured? The games you play don't look at the time. You would rate the tactic based on correct moves made relative to what other players are doing, just like any rating.

Time pressure is not necessary to rate the problems.

As far as cheating goes, anyone can cheat even with the timer. You can easily write a program that looks at the screen and feeds the position into a chess engine. The relativity small number of people cheating wouldn't affect the rating a whole lot if the formula for calculating the rating was written well. Why would you even think that there would be a deluge of people cheating at TT? It would make no sense. There's no bragging rights. Do you think that people are doing that with Chess Mentor? It's just pointless.

Also the fast player wouldn't be giving the same problems that require more thinking, since they would naturally have a lower rating, unless they are just good at that problem. Ultimately the rating would be determined by whether you got it correct or not, not by how fast you go.

I think I might turn the timer back on. I turned it off because seeing a yellow and red flashing decreasing line was very distracting. But seeing as how the time is paramount, I'll "cheat" by using the knowledge of how long I have to solve it (an advantage I don't have in real games).

So if I have 15 seconds, I'll just grab the hanging piece and not learn a thing. If I have more time, I'll use it to solve the apparently harder problem. Seems like it's the only way to improve my rating. (assuming I can get past the distraction of it the line.) It'd be much easier if they just told me the amount of average time I have before I even see the problem. I'll see if that works.

My point was that calculating quickly (and not so bad) is a skill that can be developed, just like calculating slowly (and more correctly, or so that's the idea)

Your point was clear to all. The problem in this thread stems from a very specific criticism from a weak tactician with no interest in the experience of stronger players, nor recognition that other players have different needs, nor willingness to recognize ways that his needs could be met without impinging on the needs of others.

Instead of wishing that the system were different, why not accept the challenge and do the best that you can.  If you quit worrying about the timer and the rating, you will improve.

The rating should depend on whether or not you get a problem right, not how fast you do it. I know that a couple of times, I've gotten a problem correct but went down in my rating a few points because I did it in a minute. :(

Please tell that to my boss.  If I don't solve the problems by their due dates, my boss will find someone who can.

Also, in school, you have a fixed amount of time to finish a test.  The fact that you could have answered all the questions correctly if given more time is inconsequential.

Should I return the money I've won from tournaments because my opponents made errors in time pressure?

There is a difference between correspondance chess and work or school.

Funnily enough.

TT is a teaching tool.  It's like being in school.  You're being graded on what you know.  It's up to you to learn the material.