Practice,research & analysis using chess engines...What's ACCEPTABLE?

  • #1

    Hello fellow Chess.com members and staff!

    I hope you are all doing well!

    I asked a question similar to this a while back, and got some decent responses.

    However, while I never use a chess engine while playing tournaments, obviously, I'm afraid to even OPEN my engine, even to play and analyze completely unrelated games to the one's I'm currently active in.

    The problem is I, as many others, have preffered openings which stands to reason, that these openings are not only being played in tourney's, but also in practice analysis sessions with my engines to get better.

    So, I'm confused as to exactly WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE???

    Obviously, there's the obvious cheating by setting up a position that your cuurently playing and then starting the engine to find the optimal move. I clearly understand THAT.

    The confusion comes in the form of the above.

    PRACTICE GAMES THAT INEVIDABLY EITHER PLAY RIGHT OUT INTO A CURRENT GAME, OR TRANSPOSE INTO THAT CURRENT GAME. ???

    What to do?

    Am I allowed to SAVE MY THOUGHT OUT variations in my tourney games as .pgn's??? I'm putting alot of time PER GAME, and to continuosly have to "start all over again" is extremely time consuming, as I cannot remember all of my thoughts as the games move on. OR do I have to save them in my "Notes" section of the individual games?

    Can I save the .pgn's and play them out in my GUI WITHOUT THE AID OF TURNING ON AN ENGINE? ETC...ETC...???

    I feel like somehow by playing in these tournaments that I'm never able to properly analyze my games BECAUSE OTHER GAMES ARE BEING PLAYED AND DON'T WANT TO "CHEAT" BY ACCIDENT.

    Therefore, I'm never able to use my engine it seems when ANY GAME is being played, which is keeping me from joining many tournies I'd like to play.

    NO GAMES=ABILITY TO USE ENGINES FOR ANALYSIS AND PROGRESS.

    Withgout going on and on, I believe I've pretty much stated the concerns and reasons for my dilemma here.

    Maybe I missed it, but is there a post, link, or permanent sticky from the Chess.com admins/pros that give EXACT rules and answers to EXACTLY WHAT the acceptable and unnacceptable rules are?

    I've even stopped using my GUI and Engines to practice learning from my openings.pgn.

    ANY info, answers, scenarios, both accepatable and unacceptable is greatly needed for me to know for sure what I can do, and what I cannot do.

    I apologize for the length of this post, but didn't want to be vague in any way to have to ask again. :)

    Please help!

    Thanks all!

    -BrootFaus/JS

  • #2

    JS,

    It isn't acceptable to have an open chess program (Chessbase, Fritz, Rybka, etc) and access it, in any way, during your games. We believe that online chess (Live Chess in particular) should be treated like a tournament game (over the board tournament that is):

    You would not be allowed to make any notes, access any information (article, program, etc) of any kind during a tournament game. You aren't even allowed to discuss the game with a buddy in the bathroom, technically.

    It isn't possible for us to control or monitor all forms of cheating, and obviously I can't discuss our methods here. But, if I am simply answering your question as to what is acceptable -- then you have it: The only form of analysis or note making of any kind should take place in post-mortem analysis. In Echess, like correspondence chess in "real life", analysis and note making is more acceptable and actually the standard for most people; however, computer engine analysis is still forbidden even in that format.

    I will look into whether or not we have an article with the exact rules and regulations, because if you are confused, I am sure there are others... I will let you know.

    Hope that helps!

    Danny

  • #3
    There is this site, chesspo.st in which you can add your games too and have them analysed by Houdini.
  • #4
  • #5

    AceChess, we're talking echess, not Live.  Maybe I can rephrase the question.

    The question is:  I have an echess game I just finished that started with the Queen's Gambit Accepted.  I'm also currently playing an echess game that started with the Queen's Gabmit Accepted.  What are my options for analyzing the FIRST game, the one that's finished?  You can't seriously expect us to do no analysis of any game whatsoever until we finish every single game - that could take a year!

  • #6
    DavidMertz1 wrote:

    AceChess, we're talking echess, not Live.  Maybe I can rephrase the question.

    The question is:  I have an echess game I just finished that started with the Queen's Gambit Accepted.  I'm also currently playing an echess game that started with the Queen's Gabmit Accepted.  What are my options for analyzing the FIRST game, the one that's finished?  You can't seriously expect us to do no analysis of any game whatsoever until we finish every single game - that could take a year!


    That's a good question, actually.

    I recently played an unrated engine game in the Steinitz Scotch on here, and had another (rated) game following the same moves. I felt obliged to resign that one in an even position, beause there's no way I could seperate the two.

  • #7

    Good point... I would say you should be able to analyze the previous game. If it happens to be similar to a current game, you can't do anything about that. I would say that the current game cannot be open in the browser window or any other format (like have the same position setup in another program, etc) at the same time...

  • #8

    As I've written before, several times, there will always be problems. If I'm in an echess game here, and then I participate in a weekend tournament and play the same opening, then go discuss it with my GM coach, it is likely that I'm violating the TOS of chess.com. Not much I can do about that. I'm not going to change my methods of training because of the TOS here. But then again, I'm not going to go so far as to resign the in-progress echess game on chess.com out of a sense of duty, either. :-P

  • #9

    Thanks to all & to Danny for all of your timely input and in posting your responses.

    I think I now have a much better understanding now of what can work, and what doesn't.

    After deeper thought on this, and again this is a TOURNAMENT TOS question, as LIVE chess and no outside help is painfully clear and obvious.

    I believe the biggest issue isn't the games CURRENTLY being played, that's a no-brainer regarding engine analysis etc..It's the analyzing of post-mortem games that can and are VERY LIKELY to either play out or once again transpose into NEW CURRENT games, and how it ultimately ends up becoming a somewhat never ending cycle of "running into" constant tournament playing games and their variations...etc...

    Thanks again to you all!

    I really appreciate it, and don't want to ruin either my balance between continuing how to learn and think chess, and inadvertantly "cheating".

    Any other input always helps!

    BF/JS Laughing

  • #10

    Am I allowed to review an opponent's past games in Explorer? Is this an act of research (similar to watching tapes of opponent's past games in football) or an act of cheating (similar to stealing a catcher's signs in baseball)?

    Thanks for the help!

  • #11

    JS,

    I did some more research on this -- and there really isn't anything you can do if you are analyzing a previous game, and a new one you start happens to be the same opening. YOU SHOULD try to use your new knowledge in the new game. That is part of chess and the risk people take with echess or corresspondence. I would say that as long as you exercise the respect for the current game by not looking at the new board or having that window open while you are analyzing, then you are totally OK.

     

    Good luck buddy!

    Danny

     

    @AYoung12 -- Yes, you are allowed to review your opponent's previous games in the explorer as long as you do so before making your first move. You can't look up their games once you have started.

  • #12
    ACEChess wrote:

    @AYoung12 -- Yes, you are allowed to review your opponent's previous games in the explorer as long as you do so before making your first move. You can't look up their games once you have started.


    Am I correct in thinking that using opening databases is ok, as long you are not specifically looking at your opponents previous games?

  • #13

    Yes, using an opening database is OK for the games that take days per move.

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