USCF OTB: Ok to stand behind Opponent's Chair? + Puzzle Question

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Avatar of IMKeto
SeniorPatzer wrote:

Question for Tournament Directors or Knowledgeable Players:  Is it okay to stand behind your opponent's chair to see the board from his point of view?  Or is it against USCF rules?  

 

 

What's prompting the question is that oftentimes I can sometimes solve a puzzle better when I switch the board to the Player whose turn it is to move.  Eg., White to move and win, then I want to see it from White's point of view.  If "Black to move and win," then I want to see it from Black's point of view.

 

 

So I was wondering if it's permissible to do that in an USCF OTB tournament?  Now I have never ever seen anyone do what I'm suggesting, so maybe it's against the rules?

 

 

I was just wondering, when I've pressed my clock, and it's his/her turn to move, maybe I can see my opponent's candidate moves or plans or strategies BETTER if I got up out of my chair, and walked around and viewed the game from his/her vantage point.  (!?) 

 

 

I wouldn't be doing it to intimidate or bother my opponent.  I'd be doing it so that I'd make better moves.  Q:  Is this legal per USCF Rules?

 

 

Puzzle Question:  If it's against USCF rules, should I then stop "Flipping" the board for 2D online puzzle-solving so I get used to solving puzzles from only one fixed vantage point?  

 

 

It's just that when I solve positions, I like to think and see  as "GO FORWARD" towards my opponent.   Going backwards doesn't feel as comfortable. 

 

Its fine to do, as long as youre respectful and quiet.

Avatar of SuperSam1
SeniorPatzer wrote:
AnthonyAtanasov wrote:

yeah tons of my opponents in Canadian and FIDE rated tournaments do that, I find it annoying but I never report my opponents or anything. Actually some coaches recommend that to their students. I don't think it's against the rules, unless they're in time pressure and you start making funny faces at them

 

You know what would be kinda funny?  If both players started doing that!?!  

 

I feel your presence behind me.  I make my move, press my clock, then I get up and quietly walk over to your side of the board, lol!

In one really stressful game I played this actually happened for a couple of minutes.

Avatar of SeniorPatzer
SuperSam1 wrote:
SeniorPatzer wrote:
AnthonyAtanasov wrote:

yeah tons of my opponents in Canadian and FIDE rated tournaments do that, I find it annoying but I never report my opponents or anything. Actually some coaches recommend that to their students. I don't think it's against the rules, unless they're in time pressure and you start making funny faces at them

 

You know what would be kinda funny?  If both players started doing that!?!  

 

I feel your presence behind me.  I make my move, press my clock, then I get up and quietly walk over to your side of the board, lol!

In one really stressful game I played this actually happened for a couple of minutes.

 

LOL, were you the first one to walk over to the other side of the board, or the second?

Avatar of SuperSam1

First. We stared at each others board for a solid 2 minutes before we went back to our sides. In the end we drew.

Avatar of ChrisWainscott
I’m a TD. I would have no issues with this as long as the player wasn’t crowding the opponent.
Avatar of SeniorPatzer
ChrisWainscott wrote:
I’m a TD. I would have no issues with this as long as the player wasn’t crowding the opponent.

 

Yay!  Our first TD has spoken!  Thanks for the ruling, along with its proviso.  

 

I wonder if it all depends on the TD who's directing the tournament.  Some TD's might be like Chris, and others may not be.

 

On a related note, I have read reviews of books that registered a complaint that goes like this, "Chess Book ABC with Publisher XYZ has the annoying habit of printing all its diagrams from White's point of view even when it's Black's turn to move.  I will have to deduct one star from this otherwise fine book because of it.  Why can't we get books that alternate the viewpoint depending on whose move it is?  Is that too hard to ask?  4 stars instead of 5!"

Avatar of DanielGuel
SeniorPatzer wrote:
ChrisWainscott wrote:
I’m a TD. I would have no issues with this as long as the player wasn’t crowding the opponent.

 

Yay!  Our first TD has spoken!  Thanks for the ruling, along with its proviso.  

 

I wonder if it all depends on the TD who's directing the tournament.  Some TD's might be like Chris, and others may not be.

 

On a related note, I have read reviews of books that registered a complaint that goes like this, "Chess Book ABC with Publisher XYZ has the annoying habit of printing all its diagrams from White's point of view even when it's Black's turn to move.  I will have to deduct one star from this otherwise fine book because of it.  Why can't we get books that alternate the viewpoint depending on whose move it is?  Is that too hard to ask?  4 stars instead of 5!"

I'm a TD as well wink.png 

Avatar of DanielGuel

http://www.uschess.org/msa/MbrDtlTnmtDir.php?15701903

Avatar of HolographWars

I have done this many times before and never got in to trouble in otb

Avatar of SeniorPatzer
HolographWars wrote:

I have done this many times before and never got in to trouble in otb

 

Curious.  Do you ever feel funny or self-conscious when you walk over to your opponent's side of the table?  I've never done it before, but I'm thinking I'd feel a little weird, and hoping that the other players in the playing hall don't think I'm weird.

Avatar of SeniorPatzer

I asked Martin Stahl about this, and he's a tournament director, and he said: 

 

"Players are allowed to move around and can look at the position from any angle. As long as they are not intruding on the other player's space, then there is nothing wrong."

Avatar of HolographWars

I usually do that for black, to see white's perspective, and do that about 2 times per game.

Avatar of SeniorPatzer
HolographWars wrote:

I usually do that for black, to see white's perspective, and do that about 2 times per game.

 

I asked this before, but maybe it got skipped because it was the last comment on the previous page:

 

Curious, HolographWars.  Do you ever feel funny or self-conscious when you walk over to your opponent's side of the table?  I've never done it before, but I'm thinking I'd feel a little weird, and hoping that the other players in the playing hall don't think I'm weird.

Avatar of HolographWars

I like to do it because I am usually more at home with white. I don't feel funny. Chess diagrams in books always feature white side first. I want to know how my position looks from the "normal" point of view, thought I have never thought my position "drastically changes" when I move from one side to another. 

Avatar of HolographWars

And it helps me think, "What would I do if I were white, and how can I prepare myself?"

Avatar of Firethorn15

This concept of seeing things from your opponent's point of view (especially from White's point of view as Black, for the aforementioned reason (diagrams in books)) is interesting. I had an OTB game once as White where my opponent, a 2000-rated player, fell for the following trap:

This is an extremely famous trap (Fischer - Reshevsky, New York 1958-59), and my opponent had seen it before, but it is always shown from the White side and thus a player unfamiliar with the opening (my opponent plays many different opening lines as either colour) would not necessarily spot it in an OTB game.

Avatar of SeniorPatzer
DamonevicSmithlov wrote:

Aaaaand this.

 

 

I didn't know that Leonardo was a chessplayer, lol.  Kinda looks like Magnus in that GIF.

 

What if Magnus started doing those moves while standing behind Fabio during the WC Match?  What would Maurice Ashley talk to Magnus about during the post game interview?