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1. e4 e6 2. d4 c5!?


  • 9 months ago · Quote · #1

    rtaeyoung

    I'm playing this opening, and I believe this is one of the best ways the reach an open sicilian position, especially to the schveningen or the kan.

    Where white can also defend the pawn with c3. This may transpose to a advance french.

    Are there any ideas or recommendations to this opening?

  • 9 months ago · Quote · #2

    tmkroll

    This is the Franco-Benoni. White's best move is d5. 



  • 9 months ago · Quote · #3

    clunney

    Yes but what if white plays 3. d5 and transposes into a Benoni? :)

  • 9 months ago · Quote · #4

    Bereng

     If white plays 3.d5, you might be stuck playings some sort of benoni, so you have to be ready for that.

  • 9 months ago · Quote · #5

    2mooroo

    If you want a Kan why don't you just play it starting with 1..c5

    I play 1..e6 after 1.d4 which gives white the option of transposing into the French.  I flirted with the idea of playing this to hop from a French into a Sicilian, but 3.d5 made me abandon that notion.  Not only does 3.d5 throw me back into the d4 systems, but it gives me a version of the Benoni I don't particularly like.  (The Benoni before white commits to Nf3 is considered on shaky ground theoretically because f4 is so powerful).

  • 9 months ago · Quote · #6

    amartalon

    It's fairly poor play by black because it gives white the option of playing a Sicilian (in this case not the strongest idea) or a favourable version of the Benoni.  In general when playing black you should limit white's options and try to control what variation you end up in.

  • 9 months ago · Quote · #7

    rtaeyoung

    2mooroo wrote:

    If you want a Kan why don't you just play it starting with 1..c5

    I play 1..e6 after 1.d4 which gives white the option of transposing into the French.  I flirted with the idea of playing this to hop from a French into a Sicilian, but 3.d5 made me abandon that notion.  Not only does 3.d5 throw me back into the d4 systems, but it gives me a version of the Benoni I don't particularly like.  (The Benoni before white commits to Nf3 is considered on shaky ground theoretically because f4 is so powerful).

    I tried to start with c5, but I personally think that this is a good way to avoid the anti-sicilian systems, where I had a problem with the moscow variation when I was playing the najdorf.  

  • 9 months ago · Quote · #8

    2mooroo

    The Moscow variation is rather innocuous.  Play Nd7 and know white is more or less wasting precious time with the bishop.

  • 9 months ago · Quote · #9

    rtaeyoung

    Agreed with that. 

  • 9 months ago · Quote · #10

    amartalon

    The Moscow has long been a kind of pet line of mine, generally speaking it is my preferred way of playing against the Sicilian OTB (in CC I don't mind playing the open Sicilians where I have more time and resources at hand).  My idea for white is essentially to get into a kind of inferior version of the Ruy Lopez where you protect e4 with Re1 and play c3 and d4.  You don't get a big advantage, in fact black is probably equal with best play, but it's just quite simple to play from the white side and I find many Sicilian players do not enjoy this kind of position.



  • 9 months ago · Quote · #11

    2mooroo

    6.Bf1 for sure.  Just looks nice and clean if you ask me.  The queenside pawns are slightly less scary than they look imo.  b5 can be immediately counter-attacked with a4.

  • 9 months ago · Quote · #12

    amartalon

    Yeah you're probably right, I think Bf1 is recommended by theory but I also don't see anything wrong with just exchanging on d7.

  • 9 months ago · Quote · #13

    MelvinDoucet

    amartalon wrote:

    Yeah you're probably right, I think Bf1 is recommended by theory but I also don't see anything wrong with just exchanging on d7.

    I think it helps out black somewhat. Their queen's knight and LSB are stepping on each other's toes, both wanting to use d7 and c6. Since black has less space, the trades are good for them.

  • 9 months ago · Quote · #14

    2mooroo

    I'm not one to care about the bishop pair, but the bishop is actually extremely well placed on Bf1 in these Spanish positions.  Another idea is to retreat it back to d3, play c3, and tuck into c2.  This plan is not bad at all.  In fact I once studied 3.Bd3 .  It's not terribly ambitious but it gets you out of the Sicilian systems into Ruy territory if that's your thing.  If black refers to the Spanish books he'll find that he can reach typical positions several tempi up, but in the beginning it's incredibly hard to keep track of the transpositional possibilities so I wouldn't expect black to play many best moves.  I will say that if you trade off your bishop you should attempt to establish a closed pawns later.  In the normal Ruy it'd be easy to look up the best way to do this, but you really have no clue what kind of setup black will go for so it's a bit more difficult.  I recommend not trading it off though.. that bishop may very well be a monster later.
    Anyway, here's how the pros do it.  (If you can beat Naka with it it can't be too bad.)

  • 9 months ago · Quote · #15

    amartalon

    That's a nice idea, I'll keep it in mind.  I definately feel more comfortable playing Spanish type positions OTB than Sicilians.

  • 9 months ago · Quote · #16

    2mooroo

  • 9 months ago · Quote · #17

    amartalon

    Nice thanks for that...I'd never even looked at that 5. c4 idea before but it looks very good thanks!

  • 9 months ago · Quote · #18

    TitanCG

    3.d5 can leave Black pretty passive. I'm not sure that a sicilian player would want to play against it.


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