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Development in a specific line of the 4... Bf5 Caro-Kann

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Julien852

Yes, it is this variation M. pfren.
Though, I don't understand : "analysed to death" ?

Julien852
Spinaltap wrote:

After 13. Ne4 Nxd4 14.Qd4 Nf6 15.Qe2 Qd5 16. Kb1 Qe4 is fine for black. White can play 15. Qd3 to mix it up a bit, then the Qd5 plan isn't so good as the other guy pointed out. After 13. Kb1 theres a lot of ideas to avoid getting mated by playing some usefulish waiting moves like Qc7 to see what white does since g4 doesn't do much if the kings still on e8. You can play O-O which is probably the main line but you run the risk of getting mated, especially if you don't know the theory.

M. Spinaltap, could you tell me where I can find the 0-0 theory (analysed in depth) ? (books, videos, ...)

Julien852

M. pfren, do you mean that, as Black, I should avoid playing this ? But what if my opponent is going for this variation ? Do you mean that I should study an other variation (such as 4... Nd7) or an other opening ?

Mainline_Novelty
Julien852 wrote:

M. pfren, do you mean that, as Black, I should avoid playing this ? But what if my opponent is going for this variation ? Do you mean that I should study an other variation (such as 4... Nd7) or an other opening ?

You can keep chances alive with 17...f5!? (instead of 17...Nxf2)

Spotlion

I recently had a game where I castled queenside as black.

I did pretty well in the game, I wonder if this is playable?

Julien852

Isn't queenside castling a bit passive for Black ? (I mean better prospects for White)
What do you prefer between kingside and queenside castling M. pfren ?

Mainline_Novelty : did you find your preparation ? Would you agree to share it ?

I have an other question for everybody : after 15. Qe2 Qd5 16. Kb1 Qe4, what is best play for Black if White does not take the queen but instead plays a rook on e1 or Be3 ?
And if Queens are traded on move 17, how does Black to reduce as much as possible white knight's activity ?

I'd like to thank you all for answering and exchanging ideas, that's very great.

Spinaltap
Julien852 wrote:
Spinaltap wrote:

After 13. Ne4 Nxd4 14.Qd4 Nf6 15.Qe2 Qd5 16. Kb1 Qe4 is fine for black. White can play 15. Qd3 to mix it up a bit, then the Qd5 plan isn't so good as the other guy pointed out. After 13. Kb1 theres a lot of ideas to avoid getting mated by playing some usefulish waiting moves like Qc7 to see what white does since g4 doesn't do much if the kings still on e8. You can play O-O which is probably the main line but you run the risk of getting mated, especially if you don't know the theory.

M. Spinaltap, could you tell me where I can find the 0-0 theory (analysed in depth) ? (books, videos, ...)

Not sure where you could find that for free. There's always chessbase which is very expensive. It might be in the lars schandorff caro kann book, but I'm not 100% sure haven't opened it up in awhile. I wouldn't worry about it though at your level. Your opponents aren't going to get that far anyway.

Julien852

Thanks M. pfren for your deep analysis (comment 24), I came to a conclusion : classical variation (4... Bf5) is OK, and after 16. g4 Nxg4, Black has 2 interesting moves : Nxf2 (which seems to lead to draw with precise play) and f5 (with chances for both sides).

Julien852
Julien852 wrote:

I have an other question for everybody : after 15. Qe2 Qd5 16. Kb1 Qe4, what is best play for Black if White does not take the queen but instead plays a rook on e1 or Be3 ?
And if Queens are traded on move 17, how does Black to reduce as much as possible white knight's activity ?

Do you have some answers for those 2 questions please ?

Julien852

In fact, 16. Kb1 could be a mistake for White, cause Black can then play Nxh5, though after 17. g4 Nf6 18.g5 Ne4 19. gxh6 Rxh6, Black should castle queenside.

Thus, we can assume that White will, in all likelihood, play 16.c4 and after 16... Qe4, if 17. Be3 (in order to avoid the exchange of queens), we can play 17... b5, attaquing on the queenside, moreover, black queen is very active.

Julien852
Lim_Lom_Sandpfote wrote:

Back to my experience: When I played this line 30 years ago it appeared very solid to me. The problem for black is unbalancing this. So you need a backup for cases you have to play for a win with black.

By "backup", you are talking about other openings in the repertoire, so, what's your advice ?

For example, in my club, somebody knows very well this 4. Bf5 line. In order to win against those opponents (not only playing for a draw), I have to learn other openings, but highly sharp theoretical one-move-blunder openings cut both ways so, I prefer more "solid" openings. How about the 4. Nd7 Caro-Kann ?

In fact, Caro-Kann has the advantage to be both solid and acheving equality. Other openings don't : 1. e4 e5 is passive for Black ; 1. e4 c5 cut both ways, as I said ; and 1. e4 e6 has an annoying drawback : the light-squared bishop is trapped in our pawn structure.

Julien852

Another question Smile :

How should Black continue in this line ?
(After g4, Nxg4 seems risky because Rhg1, f5, Qxe6+, Qxe6, Rxe6, with White having a open file and a strong pressure)

Julien852
pfren wrote:

The sole passive thing I can see here is your ignorance.

What I wrote is just an opinion, no need to be unkind...

Julien852
pfren wrote:

A very poor one at that, based on lack of basic knowledge of the chess fundamentals.

Maybe, but there are other ways to say it, such as : "I disagree with your opinion because..." or "your opinion is this one today, but maybe those other openings will interest you in the future" instead of being unkind right away.

Julien852

Third option : I don't like this opening, example : Fischer and Kasparov playing principally Najdorf sicilian (or other sicilian), and not e4 e5.

Julien852
Julien852 wrote:

Third option : I don't like this opening, example : Fischer and Kasparov playing principally Najdorf sicilian (or other sicilian), and not e4 e5.

Julien852

By the way, it's a Petroff defence, not a sicilian variation.
No need to thank me, it was my pleasure.

Julien852

Thank you Lim Lom, you're obviously nicer than pfren.

I'll look at the 1. e4 e5 defences, as you advice, though, I'm a little worried about the Italian game (if you know an interesting line for Black, I'd be glad to learn it).

I'd stick to the Caro-Kann defence but my opponent only play 1.e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2, so I can't play the c5 line. Maybe should I learn the 4... Nd7 variation.

LoveYouSoMuch
Julien852 wrote:

Thank you Lim Lom, you're obviously nicer than pfren.

I'll look at the 1. e4 e5 defences, as you advice, though, I'm a little worried about the Italian game (if you know an interesting line for Black, I'd be glad to learn it).

I'd stick to the Caro-Kann defence but my opponent only play 1.e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2, so I can't play the c5 line. Maybe should I learn the 4... Nd7 variation.

what do you mean by italian game and what do you mean by interesting

in any case, i think that the two knights fits the bill and you can consider 4.. d5 against d3.

Mainline_Novelty
LoveYouSoMuch wrote:
Julien852 wrote:

Thank you Lim Lom, you're obviously nicer than pfren.

I'll look at the 1. e4 e5 defences, as you advice, though, I'm a little worried about the Italian game (if you know an interesting line for Black, I'd be glad to learn it).

I'd stick to the Caro-Kann defence but my opponent only play 1.e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2, so I can't play the c5 line. Maybe should I learn the 4... Nd7 variation.

what do you mean by italian game and what do you mean by interesting

in any case, i think that the two knights fits the bill and you can consider 4.. d5 against d3.

+1000000000