Forums

Dutch Defense

Sort:
Pikachulord6

Recently, I have become interested in the Dutch Defense. A few especially appealing points: You can have a "Dutch set-up" against 1.d4 1.c4 and 1.Nf3. Another is the fact that it is a counterattacking, aggressive opening. I have never really been great at all-out attack and using the initiative, so I figure playing the Dutch would be great practice.

Anyway, I'm wondering about a few things. First, I realize that there are many set-ups and variations involved (Leningrad, Stonewall, Antoshin, Classical, etc.). My question is: when is it best to use each of these variations and what are the plans behind each? Also, how does one start a king-side attack using each of these variations (or the Dutch in general)? I have heard that Qe8-d8-h5 is one maneuver that is common, but I don't know how to use this to my benefit.

My other question lies in the realm of Master Games. Obviously, the Dutch is not exactly popular, but I realize that there are quite a few GMs who use it from time to time. Who are these GMs and where might I find a collection of Dutch Defense games that illustrate different concepts about this opening?

Thanks!

eaglex

Nakamura Dutch

Botvinnik Dutch

DrSpudnik

Tartakower was fond of the Dutch, as well as Morphy. Aljechin has a variation named after him (involving an early Ne4 in the classical lines). Short, Vaiser, Malaniuk and Glek have a bunch of games in various Dutch lines. But almost anyone who was anyone (Tal, Bronstein, Flohr...) had at least a couple of Dutches in their scorebooks.

Based on about 20+ years of postal play: the Stonewall is the most difficult to play well, and you have to be very careful not to let White get in a setup with Bf5, e3 and Bd3, which is very tough to do anything against. Also, lines with Nh3 (intending Nf4) are to be avoided. This is why a lot of players start with a Classical setup (f5, Nf6, e6) first and then wait to see if they can jump in with d5 or keep it Classical.

The Leningrad is the sharpest of the bunch, like a King's Indian Defense without having to play the Nh5/f5/Nf6 manouver. After a couple years in Classical lines, I'm going back to the Leningrad, myself.

In order to avoid odd move 2 tricks, I started playing 1...e6 and only then play f5 on move 2 unless White played 2. e4. But a lot of these move 2 oddities (Bg5; g4; Nc3; e4) really aren't much to worry about.

The main idea in the Dutch is to play for a King-side attack. If you have to play g5 and h5 as well, you just have to take the plunge. Positionally, Black takes on a number of weaknesses on move 1, but then, he isn't playing for a long struggle into the endgame. The big weakness is the a2-g8 diagonal.

If you keep your pieces active and always look menacingly at the White King-side, you can keep the balance in the position and may even score the point. If your play bogs down, White will crunch you on the Queen-side with a pawn roller.

DrizztD

This is an awesome attack that Najdorf made in the Dutch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4lYZmyhmRo

DrSpudnik

Oh, and the Q-e8-h5 manouver is an idea to keep in mind, but anyone worth their salt will not be spooked by it and be prepared. It requires more piece coordination on the K-side as part of a general attack. It's especially good if you can shove f5-f4 and crack into the White K-side and open the Rook's f-file.

Also, as a general rule, I have found that if White can get in e4, you have to play e5 right away or get slaughtered, even at the risk of losing a pawn. Maybe that last point is just one of my observations, so you may want to ask a Master with a Dutch background to check that one out. Laughing 

Fromper

Well, I'll agree that the Stonewall is tough to play. I don't like the hole on e5 that white can use, or the blocked queen's bishop.

I stick to the Classical variation. Like DrSpudnik, I also play e6 on the first move before f5, to avoid some of the anti-Dutch lines.

About having to push e5 once white pushes e4, that's not always true. In his "Killer Dutch" DVD (highly recommended if you want to learn the Classical Dutch), GM Simon Williams gives several lines where black can't meet e4 with e5, so instead he just pushes f5 to f4. You do pretty much have to do one or the other, though. Take on e4 is almost never a reasonable option, since it opens up the center in white's favor in most lines.

I've never tried the Leningrad. Or any other opening that has a king side fianchetto. That's a setup that I know absolutely nothing about. The Classical gives me the kind of king side play that I'm looking for, so I'm sticking with it for now.

DrSpudnik

There is one more line I don't have any real familiarity with: the Bb4 lines from the classical. These lines depend on your opponent playing an early c4, so they usually come only after the 1. ... e6 2. ... f5 move order.

I don't recall any modern masters favoring this, since I think Capablanca or Botvinnik (or someone back when) pretty much showed this to be a draw at best. And most Blacks would like to go for the Kingside attack.

I think Fromper was right on the "what to do after e4" advice.

Pikachulord6

@eaglex: Thanks. I had completely forgotten about chessgames.com.

@DrizztD: I think I've seen this game before. It is pretty cool...

@DrSpudnik & Fromper: That's a lot of interesting insight you guys have there. You two both said that you play 1...e6 rather than the standard 1...f5 to avoid some lines. However, that means that you also have to be ready for the French after 2. d4, right? I also have a few questions regarding kingside attacks in the Dutch. How or when do you know to attack on the kingside? Do you usually play ...f4 first or ...g5 or is there something else that "tells" you to attack? Is there any sort of "formation" that is useful in an attack? I'm a fairly poor attacking player, and the only times I have ever gone "for my opponent's throat" so as to speak was when an attack pretty much fell into my lap. Any advice on how I can improve my attacking game?

Flamma_Aquila

I've tried the Dutch, mainly the stonewall, and I find it usually becomes a edge of your seat kind of game, where I launch a kingside attack which if it works, I win, if not, I die.

I prefer something a bit less aggressive. I don't play it very well.

DrSpudnik
Pikachulord6 wrote:

@DrSpudnik & Fromper: That's a lot of interesting insight you guys have there. You two both said that you play 1...e6 rather than the standard 1...f5 to avoid some lines. However, that means that you also have to be ready for the French after 2. d4, right? I also have a few questions regarding kingside attacks in the Dutch. How or when do you know to attack on the kingside? Do you usually play ...f4 first or ...g5 or is there something else that "tells" you to attack? Is there any sort of "formation" that is useful in an attack? I'm a fairly poor attacking player, and the only times I have ever gone "for my opponent's throat" so as to speak was when an attack pretty much fell into my lap. Any advice on how I can improve my attacking game?


 If you start with e6, you must learn the French. Or you could play 1. ... f5 and just learn those move 2 white oddities and really put White off his game when you play out his "refutation" to move 15 or so. Wink

Learning to time a King-side charge is one of the things that makes Chess more of an art than a science. One bit of advice: finish your development first, then attack. Several times, I have gone for the throat only to need one more knight, and there it was sitting on b8. And once you commit to an attack, there is no turning back.

One thing about the Leningrad is that White often plays d5, closing the white-square diagonal to the Black King and opening up the g7 Bishop.

Learning any opening is a trial and error process. Just don't get discouraged by setbacks. Plus, the Dutch is really irritating to d4 players. That alone makes it worthwhile.

Flamma_Aquila

I am interested in the Classical Dutch. Can anyone give me a basic sketch of the plan in the classical (i.e. where the pieces ideally go?)

DrSpudnik
rookandladder wrote:

I am interested in the Classical Dutch. Can anyone give me a basic sketch of the plan in the classical (i.e. where the pieces ideally go?)


 There's no good answer for this one. The distribution of the Q-side pieces depends on what White does. Other than Nf6, Be7, 0-0 and Qe8 the other moves are all conditional. The QKt can go to a6 (before or after a5) or it can go to c6 or even d7, especially in Aljechin (7...Ne4) lines. Often the KB drops back to d8 so the Q can cover e6.

One problem of most books on the Dutch is that many amateur players play  an e3/Bd3 setup and not the g2 fianchetto. Here a b7 fianchetto is ideal. In general, if you keep things fluid and conditional as long as possible, you can pick your counterpunch at the right moment.

Fromper

I wouldn't worry too much about transpositions to the French after 1. d4 e6. Most d4 players don't want to transpose to an e4 opening that they don't really know, especially since they'll assume you play it all the time and know it well. Besides, learning some basics of the French is MUCH easier than preparing to face all the possible anti-Dutch lines that can come after 1. d4 f5. Those anti-Dutch lines tend to be pretty sharp, so one false move can kill you. In the French, you can just learn a few basic moves in 10 minutes that lead to the quieter lines, and your opening knowledge (or lack thereof) won't really matter, especially since you'll rarely actually play the French. I play 1. d4 e6, and I've only had someone play 2. e4 once.

Agreed with DrSpudnik that there's no easy answer for the pieces in the Classical Dutch. After Nf6, e6, d6, Be7, and O-O, your next objective is to play e5 at the right time and f4 to attack on the king side. Before that, you may or may not play Ne4, Nc6, Nbd7, Qe8 (usually headed for h5, but sometimes g6), Bd8 (to protect c7 and avoid trading the bishop after white plays Nd5). One thing I will say is that you should NOT advance your g pawn unless the center is completely closed. That way leads to white trading off the center pawns and getting an attack up the center on black's exposed king.

Again, I'll recommend the "Killer Dutch" DVD by Simon Williams, one of the few grandmasters who plays the Classical Dutch regularly. It's 6.5 hours on the Classical, along with the anti-Dutch lines. I haven't finished watching the whole thing yet, but I've learned a lot from the first half, even though I'd already been playing this opening for over a year before getting it.

Pikachulord6

Interesting: Anti-Dutch lines or the French. I suppose 1...e6 is a safer bet considering the many anti-Dutch lines out there, but isn't seeing an anti-Dutch about as rare as seeing a transposition to the French? Either way, I think it would be in my best interest to look at both.

Well, thanks guys! All that's left for me to do is play the Dutch repeatedly until I feel completely comfortable with it.

checkmateisnear
Conzipe wrote:

I used to be a pure dutch player for quite some time. The problem I have with the standard move-order is that the 1. d4 f5 2. Nc3 and the 1. d4 f5 2. Bg5 lines is just very annoying to play against. Usually black ends up with a position where the only thing black can do is to try and stop white from breaking through (being on the defensive).

If you want to play the dutch I recommend using a different move-order like 1... e6, 1... d6 or 1...g6 depending on which dutch formation you want to play.

However if you want to play a stonewall then you should really try to play it via a slav move-order!
The reason why this is good is because in the slav white usually develops hes pawn to e3 which isn't optimal against the stonewall. This will often give you an improves version of the standard stonewall.

Example of how this can work:

 


http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5498
Is a link on the slav- dutch transposition
Pikachulord6

Fiveofswords: Thanks for some of the ideas involved in the Stonewall.

I just thought that I'd throw this out there: I finally played 1...e6 for the very first time against 1.d4 (here on chess.com correspondence) and what does my opponent play? 2.e4. I hope this doesn't happen every time I play it. I don't really like the French.

DrSpudnik
Pikachulord6 wrote:

Fiveofswords: Thanks for some of the ideas involved in the Stonewall.

I just thought that I'd throw this out there: I finally played 1...e6 for the very first time against 1.d4 (here on chess.com correspondence) and what does my opponent play? 2.e4. I hope this doesn't happen every time I play it. I don't really like the French.


 Well, then, you had better learn the Staunton Gambit and the other move 2 crazy moves. It can be done.

BTW: this same thing happened to me over 20 years ago when I first played e6 against d4. I also learned the French and found it wasn't nearly so bad as I thought.

Flamma_Aquila

I have started a dutch defense tourney, if anyone is interested.

http://www.chess.com/tournament/dutch-defense-deathmatch

Fromper
Pikachulord6 wrote:

Fiveofswords: Thanks for some of the ideas involved in the Stonewall.

I just thought that I'd throw this out there: I finally played 1...e6 for the very first time against 1.d4 (here on chess.com correspondence) and what does my opponent play? 2.e4. I hope this doesn't happen every time I play it. I don't really like the French.


Like I said, I've only seen 1. d4 e6 2. e4 once in dozens of games where I've played that move order. On the other hand, the anti-Dutch lines like the Staunton Gambit are popular, especially at lower levels, just because a lot of people don't want to take the time to learn the main lines as white.

Fortiscue

If you do want to play the "pure Dutch" via 1...f5, definitely invest in Sverre Johnson's Win With the Stonewall Dutch book.

Because A) it's a really great opening book, and B) because no matter which Dutch line you want to play, the optimal line for black against any number of white's "Anti-Dutch" tries turns out to be a stonewall.

Think of the SW as the Dutch equivalent of learning how to play against the various anti-Sicilians.