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English Opening Help!


  • 21 months ago · Quote · #1

    Blaken1674

    1. c4 Nf6 2. g3 e6 3. Bg2 d5 4. Nf3 dxc4 5. d4

    My question is why doesnt black play cxd4? Database says no masters played it, but I can't see why. Anyone help me see what I'm missing? Is it that white just gets a quick lead in development or is there a tacical shot?

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #2

    pellik

    From the position after dxc4 I don't have a single occurance of 5.d4 in my database. I have Qa4, 0-0, Qc2, Na3, Ne5, a4, and Nc3, all of which make sense. The position after 5.d4 is a standard Catalan tabiya, however move order is different so your move is not possible.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #3

    LJM_III

    Do you mean dxc3? I don't see any tactical shots from that position, but maybe a higher-rated player can explain why no masters played it.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #4

    pellik

    He means cxd3, capturing en-passant. 

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #5

    shepi13

    Probably because your database (Blaken's) only shows games that had an earlier d4 and reached that position through transposition (so cxd3 is not legal).

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #6

    shepi13

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #7

    Fear_ItseIf

    what pellik said.

    An example of this move order thing in databases is this:

    Go to chess com game explorer.
    Play 1.d4 d5
    Look at  2.e4 and see how many times it has been played (about 400)
    Now after 2.e4 it says ..e6 has been played 80,000 times!!!!

    This is because the position usually arrives from the order 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 and is called the french defense. The database notices the transposition and so adds the games to the move count.


    Your position most likely came about from a move order like:

    The database recognises the transposition and so will say that there are many many games in the database from this position.
    However NONE of them will have arrived there after 5.d4, this is why no one has played cxd3.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #8

    LJM_III

    So is cxd3 (which I meant to type) a good move?

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #9

    Fear_ItseIf

    yes, if you are black and white plays 5.d4 for some reason it should be a good move. White will be left with a weak pawn on d3.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #10

    Blaken1674

    Thanks, i did mean cxd3.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #11

    shepi13

    It also gets rid of black's weakness on c4 and leaves black a clear pawn up. White should never play 5. d4 there, which is why all of the games are from the other position.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #12

    Estragon

    Where the other move order is used and this is feasible, it isn't an English, it's a Catalan, and in fact a popular position so it is no wonder your database picks up so many games.  It probably did not occur from the English move order even once.


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