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How to beat the london system with 1. ...d5?

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #21


    After 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c6 3.Bf4 Qb6 (or 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c6 3.e3/Nf3 Qb6), I'm not sure black has the clear waltz to equality he does in certain ...c5 lines, but it promises to throw white out of rigid London stuff early on, is perfectly sound and easy to play as black, and scores as well or better OTB than some of the so called "best" lines.

    All without allowing white the chance to prove that he does know how to handle the reversed QGA/Noteboom type lines, which can be a lot tougher on black if white happens to be experienced with them.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #22


    shashwatchakraborty wrote:

    1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nf3 c5 4.e3 Nc6 5.c3 Qb6 6.Qb3 c4 7.Qc2 g6! followed by 8. ... Bf5 gives black a favourable position to handle. 

    There is no need to play g6 there. Bf5 is valid already since Qxf5 drops an exchange for white.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #23


  • 21 months ago · Quote · #24


    After 6 months asleep this zombie thread has awakened?

    Nice rating difference above.  Try Kamsky's games instead.  But who really cares?  Smile

    Last time I looked, the "refutation lines" were associated with GM Pruess.

    Good luck finding them.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #25


    I didn't know there was a refutation. I'm really only interested in a comfy position. I'm not expecting White to tip over in 20 moves anyway.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #26


    Easiest for black is an early c5, and take on d4.  Most lines will end up  equal.

    The most aggresive lines with black involve an early Qb6, but both sides need to be booked up.

    GM Pruess has shown aggressive lines for black (from about a year ago) that involve an early Qb6, or sometimes even Qa5 , but I couldn't find them (again) via Google.

    There are no "refutations" per se, but GM Pruess plays the white side a lot, so he's would be expected to know the latest (and best) against what he plays.

    That "info" is about a year or two old, FYI.  So the assessment may have already changed.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #27


    All those Qb6 lines with Bf5 sortie threats are good. But the question is what if white follows the seemingly more popular at amatuer level 2.Bf4?.

    Infact I just played a game a few minutes ago as black against this sort of london. My opponent held Nf3 back and didn't have much trouble at all, until he made some serious position errors follwoed by a blunder.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #28


    2 Bf4 is actually the best move order for the pure london player, as advocated by GM Vlatko Kovacevik. indeed you can often do other useful things instead of Nf3.

    the truth is, if your opponent plays the london you just have to accept that the position is going to be fairly dry for a little while...

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #29


    I don't see what you guys are saying. 2.Bf4 doesn't stop black from going in the Qb6 lines. Just play 2...c5 and it will transpose.

    If white takes you shouldn't have much trouble regaining the pawn, just play Nc6, e5, etc.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #30


    I think 2.Bf4 is fine if White wants to go for 2...c5 3.e4. Otherwise White has to deal with Qb6 stuff early.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #31


    well, an early Qb6 like in d4 d5 Bf4 c5 e3 Qb6 is trash, to say the least - 4 Nc3 and black's whole scheme has been pretty much rendered pointless. 3 e4 is also very interesting.

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